Cast Billing

captain clutterbuck

captain clutterbuck

LOTSW Fanatic
I am intrigued by something I have noticed on the opening titles for any number of episodes, specifically where Dame Thora Hird and Jean Alexander are billed as " guest appearance by " rather than members of the cast and it makes you wonder why [ well it does me] . Considering Dame Thora appeared in 152 episodes and Jean 168 they were hardly guests .

I am not sure if it is something contractual where they/their agents perhaps only negotiated some initial appearances but I seem to recall that they were billed like that for any number of episodes . Without watching multiple episodes I would not have a clue as to when they ceased being billed as guests [if indeed they ever were] .

I apologise for the thread but I am sure you appreciate when you notice something and it just niggles .
 
They remained " guest appearance by" all the way through, I read somewhere they did it for Thora Hird has a mark of respect so I imagine they did the same for Jean.
 
I can understand that Pearl and I suppose the trios , whichever combination, would always be top billing and therefore after the opening title appears, their names appear first , as effectively they would have more on screen minutes than the rest of the cast [without watching I cannot recall what happened when Peter Sallis and Frank Thornton had to reduce their roles due to their age and ill health] .

I think it probably stems from the Music Hall days where billing was all important and led to very competitive vying for the most noticeable billing , not only for the size of the writing but also the content . To give Dame Thora and Jean billing with Guest Appearance by does stand out and implies that they are so important that they have been asked to appear by special arrangement .
 
On I think it was the episode Next Kiss Please Gordon Wharmby was billed as Gordon Whamby on the end credit's
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I read something about that as well. Can't recall the exact details but I think Pearl is on the right track with what she said.
 
captain clutterbuck said:
I am intrigued by something I have noticed on the opening titles for any number of episodes, specifically where Dame Thora Hird and Jean Alexander are billed as " guest appearance by " rather than members of the cast and it makes you wonder why [ well it does me] . Considering Dame Thora appeared in 152 episodes and Jean 168 they were hardly guests .

I am not sure if it is something contractual where they/their agents perhaps only negotiated some initial appearances but I seem to recall that they were billed like that for any number of episodes . Without watching multiple episodes I would not have a clue as to when they ceased being billed as guests [if indeed they ever were] .

I apologise for the thread but I am sure you appreciate when you notice something and it just niggles .
Click to expand...

I agree with what Pearl said If I remember correctly, Alan Bell said in his book that he did that as a show of respect for Dame Thora Hird. I'm sure it was natural then to do the same for Jean Alexander - especially since her two first appearances really were guest appearances.

By Thora's last appearance, she and Jean Alexander were listed with the regular cast so I did some checking. In 2001, they were still listed together with the heading Special Guest Appearance - Dora Bryan was also listed in that. In 2002 and 2003 (Thora's last year) they were still grouped together in the credits, but there was no heading of Special Guest Appearance. After that Jean Alexander and Dora Bryan were grouped with the other cast members.
 
captain clutterbuck said:
I can understand that Pearl and I suppose the trios , whichever combination, would always be top billing and therefore after the opening title appears, their names appear first , as effectively they would have more on screen minutes than the rest of the cast [without watching I cannot recall what happened when Peter Sallis and Frank Thornton had to reduce their roles due to their age and ill health] .

I think it probably stems from the Music Hall days where billing was all important and led to very competitive vying for the most noticeable billing , not only for the size of the writing but also the content . To give Dame Thora and Jean billing with Guest Appearance by does stand out and implies that they are so important that they have been asked to appear by special arrangement .
Click to expand...

When Russ Abbot joined the cast in "I Was a Hitman for Primrose Dairies," Russ, Burt Kwouk, and Brian Murphy got top billing. Peter Sallis and Frank Thornton were moved to second page billing for the remainder of the series.
 
Always saddened by Peter Sallis and Frank Thornton being relegated to second page billing for the last two series.

Admittedly they were only in it for less than two minutes a show, though Sallis had appeared in every single show.

If it was me, I think I would have gone for all five stars in first page billing.

Since the norm was names on each page to be in alphabetical order, I think the first page billing would look ok something like this:-

Starring
RUSS ABBOT
BURT KWOUK
BRIAN MURPHY
PETER SALLIS
FRANK THORNTON

I suppose it would it fill the page up, but so what.
 
I once was very upset about a certain situation and since then I have reflected about it and formed a different opinion. Likewise, I like to look at the fact that they got any billing, i.e., they actually had parts in LOTSW and who cares where their name is, the important part is that they had a part and their name was somewhere on the credits. And Alan Bell even came up with the idea continuing the action during the credits to stop BEEB from talking over the credits.
 
wstol said:
though Sallis had appeared in every single show.
Click to expand...


I agree , it shows a lack of reverence to this great actor which is in stark contrast to what was afforded Dame Thora Hird and Jean Alexander from what Pearl kindly posted . I do concur re the fact that they got any billing and the order of that billing is perhaps not as key as the show itself but perhaps those who have contributed more to the show than other members of the cast deserve recognition of that fact .

My analogy with the Music Hall is important because billing was everything , you needed to ensure that your billing material was appropriate to your position in the running order and in addition it did help you establish your act with the public . It was key because it could form part of the process that determine which circuit , in the context of the Moss Empire theatres , you appeared on . So although not as critical in TV terms it still would be a valid concern to the actors , actresses and most probably their Agents.
 
Recall reading that in the earlier days anyway, there was some rancour about who spoke or was seen first and it had to be equalled out - in the earlier Foggy era.I beleve Bill Own was not above checking on such details - as all this was crucial to their own "scrapbook" of success. Of course I beleive Bill also thought he was a bigger star because he had appeared in films whereas Peter Sallis was principally a stage and TV actor. Pepys for one comes to mind.
 
Just on the question of billing I have been looking at the BBC Archive site and there is a feature on Dad's Army at 40 . There is a copy of a letter from Clive Dunn's agent agreeing that Clive Dunn will be billed as the third person behind Arthur Lowe and John Le Mesurier in the opening titles . It would appear that this is the final letter of what has been presumably a lengthy discussion between all parties.
 
I have been looking at the BBC archive site and pretty sure last time it would not let me save any images , today it seems to have been changed thus here is a print of the letter I referred to re Clive Dunn's Billing.

billing.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top