Over Speculating the Latter Years of Summer Wine

codfanglers

codfanglers

Dedicated Member
Hello Everyone,


It has been a while since you heard from me as I have so much going on. In addition, I have been out of the Summer Wine loop for a while but plan to catch up a little when my two week winter break approaches. I might post more then.

The last time I made comments here was in the thread about Roy Clarke almost starting a US version of Summer Wine. At first I thought that was a trememndous idea until the reality set in that it could have possibly diminished his commitment and motivation for the original. So this topic has to do with Clarke's level of inspiration in the last years of Summer Wine. From past threads, it seems that the most popular episode overall from the last three years was Coopers Rules. What is different about this episode? Of course, it is that this is the one episode where Cooper and Walsh take the lead roles. (personally, I think this one and Good Night Sweet Ferret are the best in the last years).

Arguably the best written episode in the last years of Summer Wine was Coopers Rule. In addition, when Summer Wine ended, Clarke's push for a Cooper and Walsh show was strong but there never seemed to be this push for reinventing a Summer Wine-type show. So this is only specualtion, but is it possible in the last years of Summer Wine, Roy Clarke was most interested in the two foolish officers format than Last of the Summer Wine. Most of us think the quality of the show dropped a bit over these years, and I know there are other factors like a decreased budget to work with (and the aging of Clegg and Trully being the obvious one), however, might the shows quality dropped a bit because Clarke's interests were changing?

I realize that I know a lot less about Summer Wine than others here and I haven't read the books yet. Sorry if I sound a bit ignorant. Also, for he fans of the Hobbo years, I am sorry if you take offense to my views (don't want to start excessive, repetitive discussions on the problems with the Hobbo years). However, this is simply speculation and a random thought I had. I wonder if there might be an ounce of truth to this.

Thoughts anyone?
 
Hello Cod,

Nice to hear from you , I think promoting the involvement of Cooper/Walsh was a strand that they could have developed far more than they did but, I imagine the purists would say it may be a step away from the original ethos of the show and from the key character thread of the various Trio's and their antics, coupled with the little vignettes involving Howard/Marina/Pearl, Compo/Nora etc.

Whilst I enjoyed some of the Hobbo episodes I have said before the show seems to have effectively been built around his stage acts from such series as Madhouse . The only comparison we have regarding Roy Clarke continuing with his writing is Still Open all Hours, the sequel of the hugely popular and frankly brilliant Open All Hours, minus of course the one of the greatest comic actors Ronnie Barker.

I have watched the first series and we know the second is in Production . My personal view , for what its worth, the show is a shadow of the original and just doesn't work on several levels . Whilst there are new actors in the show[ Tim Healy and Brigit Forsyth are experienced comic actors], the hard core , minus the aforementioned Mr Barker, are there, David Jason/Linda Baron/Stephanie Cole. All have great experience of comedic acting and the only conclusion I can draw is that the writing just isn't at a level that was attained in the original.
 
If you read through the recent thread about FOTSW and the new website for it that has been collecting interviews with the cast, you will see some discussion of this issue. Mainly because in one of the interviews the actress says Clarke wanted to phase out LOTSW in favor of the new show. That was back in the late 80s, of course. So it's probably not a stretch to say that Clarke may have in some ways felt a bit trapped by the success of the show. I wonder if at some point he had discussions about transitioning the writing of Summerwine to someone else?

That said, I think we have to be careful about assigning both praise and blame on Clarke. Summerwine benefitted from his great scripts, but the show was not Bell and the actors robotically filming what he had written. Like any show the final results are a collaboration of ideas. Read Bells book and you'll see that some classic moments were changes made during filming due to new ideas, budget or location realities, safety issues, etc. Which also means that some of the things that didn't work were also due to changes. Clarke, for example, didn't have much influence even from the start on casting. So to the degree that Hobbo didn't work, etc., he can hardly be blamed.
 
Hi Cod, great to hear from you.

I do think the show changed a lot over the years, in the beginning the pots were very believable in that everything they did and said could easily have taken place in real life but has it went on it became less believable with some of the plots becoming more fantasy but still very funny. I don't think it's a secret that I didn't like Hobbo, no matter how much I wanted too it just didn't work for me, Captain, you mentioned Still Open All Hours, I have to say that ( Although I know a certain someone totally disagrees with me, John) I totally agree and it's not a patch on what it was. I watched about 3 episodes and just couldn't face it anymore.

I honestly believe you can't recreate something like SW or OAH even if you have the same writer and some of the same cast, I mentioned on another thread that I'd recently watched an American episode of Porridge, how I love Porridge but watching that was awful, I cringed all the way through it.

I think if you want to bring something back the only way to go would be a spin off like Cooper and Walsh, the odd appearance from maybe Howard and Marina sneaking about the countryside would be acceptable but I'd hate to see anyone try to bring back SW, it's too late now and it would be too many changes for me. It was ok having the show change over the years because it was gradual but now, not after all this time.
 
Apologies but in my earlier thread I wanted to add an example of Russ Abbot's act being incorporated in the show and it's just come to me now . There is a scene in an episode from the last series where Alvin, Entwistle and Hobbo are out in the country , Alvin and Entwistle are sitting on the grass with their backs up against a stone wall , Hobbo is standing up . Alvin is reminiscing about Jam Roly Poly and starts singing a little ditty about it immediately Hobbo joins in singing "The Jam Roly Poly" and dancing as he did in Russ Abbot's Madhouse , sure the "Spy" plot content is a direct lift from his Basildon Bond character from the same show.
 
Thanks to those who replied to my thread. It is a very interesting thought by Sarkus, how Clarke may have been interested in moving away from Summer Wine much earlier but was perhaps trapped by his success in the show. His creative intersts may have been what triggered the idea for an American version. Perhaps, for Clarke, it would have been an opportunity to have a fresh start with the concept of an idle trio.

I also agree with Pearl in that spin offs are likely much better ideas than remakes. However, too much time has passed at this point. Myself and others here are often guilty of wanting more and more from Clarke and the actors, but age is certainly a factor. We need to let them rest! Of course, Clarke is not resting. I support him in Still Open All Hours. It isn't on in the US. I saw a clip of it from this sight. It could be good, but I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to see it. I would be interested in seeing how the town setting of Open All Hours is today.

Lastly, I definitely don't want this thread to be one of those "what was wrong with the Hobbo years" topics, as so much has been discussed about that before, including many comments made by myself. Despite my new theory based on Clarke's waning interests, I am still very thankful for the Hobbo years. It is my least favorite era but I appreciate Abbot and the cast sticking around a little longer. They provided us with more laughs. And I am CERTAINLY glad Clarke kept writing Summer Wine beyond the 80's!
 
The 80's and 90's are certainly among the best, Foggy's second coming as some amazing episodes so the thought of Roy Clarke packing it in in the 80's unthinkable.
 
As I type this Gold have gone back to Series 14 , with said Foggy, after the Very Last Episode was shown Friday . The Self Propelled Salad Strainer is currently on. I find it less of a strain simply watching on Gold than having to sort through the DVD collection to get my daily dose of LOTSW.:D
 
captain clutterbuck said:
I find it less of a strain simply watching on Gold than having to sort through the DVD collection
Click to expand...

I have our out of their boxes, in their envelopes, standing up fan-like
in a shallow open box so we just work thru them from first to last
with no sorting needed. A colored card always marks our current
position.
 
I think they may have squeezed another two series of LOTSW, but they didn't, and it's all a bit late now really.

I couldn't get excited about a Cooper and Walsh series, though no doubt I would have watched it with interest.

The best programme to make would be Middle of the Summer Wine. Set somewhere between 1940 and 1972 - ie between FOTSW and LOTSW.

The cast of FOTSW, who were mostly good, would be excellent in this new programme, and would be getting around the age the characters were when LOTSW started.

So maybe a show set in the 60s to early 70s.

BUT NOT LIKE HEARTBEAT. THAT PROGRAMME DRIVES ME INSANE.
 
captain clutterbuck said:
As I type this Gold have gone back to Series 14 , with said Foggy, after the Very Last Episode was shown Friday . The Self Propelled Salad Strainer is currently on. I find it less of a strain simply watching on Gold than having to sort through the DVD collection to get my daily dose of LOTSW.:D
Click to expand...

My major problem with GOLD and the programming is an apparent lack of the Seymour series.:02: ???
 
dick said:
My major problem with GOLD and the programming is an apparent lack of the Seymour series.:02: ???
Click to expand...


Dick,

I agree its some time since they showed any from that era , in recent weeks they have shown series 30 with Hobbo twice and there are further episodes from series 30 planned imminently when I checked that link the people in Gold sent me, in response regarding my question about the first episode with Hobbo in it . The response mentioned licensing [apparently they had to show Merry Entwistle and Jackson day and a Short Blast of Fred Astaire , in their words from the mail We tend to play the Christmas specials over the festive season – that’s certainly where we prioritise them.When we have played these out of season, it’ll be owing to licence issues which mean we have to play that episode before a certain point ] .

I wonder if the ability to show the Seymour episodes is at present prevented because they simply do not have the licence to show at this juncture. I could only second guess how they arrive at this position considering Gold is in part BBC Worldwide , so unless somehow the BEEB sold the licences to some of the series to a third party for broadcast it is difficult to understand why they simply cannot show any episode they want.

It just adds to the frustration we all endure , the snail pace releases of the DVD series and the way they seem to schedule showings irregularly , for example yes they have chosen to show series 14 today but start at episode 3 implies that they perhaps have licences for individual episodes only not series . :unhappy:
 
Gold is okay I also watch on Yesterday its a bit hit and miss on there but not bothered about Hobbo he is an idiot and I felt that the storylines were getting a bit thin,only problem I have is SWMBO gets annoyed when the series comes on and causes problems still when shes out I can watch in peace1
 
captain clutterbuck said:
Dick,

I agree its some time since they showed any from that era , in recent weeks they have shown series 30 with Hobbo twice and there are further episodes from series 30 planned imminently when I checked that link the people in Gold sent me, in response regarding my question about the first episode with Hobbo in it . The response mentioned licensing [apparently they had to show Merry Entwistle and Jackson day and a Short Blast of Fred Astaire , in their words from the mail We tend to play the Christmas specials over the festive season – that’s certainly where we prioritise them.When we have played these out of season, it’ll be owing to licence issues which mean we have to play that episode before a certain point ] .

I wonder if the ability to show the Seymour episodes is at present prevented because they simply do not have the licence to show at this juncture. I could only second guess how they arrive at this position considering Gold is in part BBC Worldwide , so unless somehow the BEEB sold the licences to some of the series to a third party for broadcast it is difficult to understand why they simply cannot show any episode they want.

It just adds to the frustration we all endure , the snail pace releases of the DVD series and the way they seem to schedule showings irregularly , for example yes they have chosen to show series 14 today but start at episode 3 implies that they perhaps have licences for individual episodes only not series . :unhappy:
Click to expand...

The way that these channels work is that they buy the rights to specific series of a show for a certain amount of time. So the fact that Gold is part of BBC Worldwide doesn`t really affect things. This is also why, at times, Yesterday and Gold have had the rights to different series of Summer Wine.
 
Nicko12345 said:
The way that these channels work is that they buy the rights to specific series of a show for a certain amount of time. So the fact that Gold is part of BBC Worldwide doesn`t really affect things. This is also why, at times, Yesterday and Gold have had the rights to different series of Summer Wine.
Click to expand...


In which case they must consider the Christmas Specials as discrete entities and licence them individually rather than classify them as part of the main series . Interestingly regarding my gripe about the Hobbo introductory episode it seems it was not broadcast as a Christmas Special it was broadcast on New Years Eve according to what I have read.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top