What if Brian Wilde returned after the death of Bill Owen?

W

wstol

Dedicated Member
It's fairly well known Brian Wilde was invited back to the LOTSW for Compo's funeral episodes.

It was felt though Brian Wilde's reappearance would shadow Compo's passing.

Brian Wilde wasn't all that keen to return, though I imagine with persuasion he may had.

Just suppose they broke the tradition of the trio line up - authority figure, ordinary one, scruffy one - and carried on making the show permanently starring Sallis, Thornton and Wilde.

Although going against the grain, would this trio have worked? It would be interfering with the orginal format a bit.

I always knew Compo could never be replaced, and always thought it daft to try too hard in doing this.

Would the show work with Clegg and two authority figures?

It has to be said Truly always appeared to be less demanding than Foggy.

You wouldn't have quite the same crazy behaviour that Compo and later Tom, Billy and Alvin would attempt.

Yet you would have perhaps better loved (by the nation that is) and more recognisable characters in it.

I certainly think more people would have watched it.
 
Interesting concept but I suspect that it would be more than a "bit" different.

Two authority figures would never agree, so there would never get to any action. Who would be put on to undertake the mad schemes? Would Cleggy want two authoritative figures arguing? Or would he hide away?

The basic premise was always a group who naturally had little in common apart from time and living in same area.
 
What if Brian Wilde returned after the death of Bill Owen

I suspect that the two authority figures would both try to impose themselves as top dog and orchestrator of all the comic capers and it wouldn't work . In the style of and Englishman, Scotsman and Irishman walk into a bar , an Ex Policeman, Prison Warder[or Egg painter if you wish] and Lino Salesman walked into the White Horse ........ doesn't really cut the mustard for me I don't think a second comeback would have worked although it would have been nice to see him turn up for Compo's funeral as a one off appearance . I am surprised they did not try to persuade him to go for that.
 
Has Barmpot said an interesting concept. I don't think the lineup they had after Compo worked very well, I wonder if anything would have worked !?

I would like to have seen them have a go at that one, even if it was just one episode, maybe after the funeral? Foggy could have come back a few weeks later just to pay his respects therefore not over shadowing the funeral at all. I think if handled right it could have been a really good distraction for everyone and seeing two thired men at a time would been a site to see.
 
I continue to wish Foggy had made an appearance in one of the Compo passing episodes. Even a small cameo with a few lines at the funeral would have been perfect.

However, I don't see how Foggy could have returned as a regular after that. Bell says in his book that Wilde did consider a guest appearance a few years later, but changed his mind on it pretty quickly so nothing, not even a script, was developed around the idea. I personally think that the Truly-Clegg-Billy trio did work for a few years pretty well, once they got beyond the Tom period and before Peter Sallis began reducing his work load. Substituting Foggy instead of Billy would have been a pretty radical change to the core concept of how the characters interacted.
 
In the original trio, we often saw Compo and Clegg band together to rebel against Foggy's or Truly's authority. If Clegg had been alone with the two of them, he would have been torn in two by their struggles to be top dog. Clegg needed someone to stand with him (to make that majority). If they brought in another character to team with Clegg along with Truly and Foggy, it would have changed the whole dynamics of the group. Don't think that would have worked too well.
 
Sarkus said:
I continue to wish Foggy had made an appearance in one of the Compo passing episodes. Even a small cameo with a few lines at the funeral would have been perfect.

However, I don't see how Foggy could have returned as a regular after that. Bell says in his book that Wilde did consider a guest appearance a few years later, but changed his mind on it pretty quickly so nothing, not even a script, was developed around the idea. I personally think that the Truly-Clegg-Billy trio did work for a few years pretty well, once they got beyond the Tom period and before Peter Sallis began reducing his work load. Substituting Foggy instead of Billy would have been a pretty radical change to the core concept of how the characters interacted.
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It had been reported that Brian Wilde left the show due to an attack of shingles which is a disease which can inflict much pain and discomfort for an extended period of time. Perhaps he didn't wish to return because he was still was not feeling well.
 
What if Brian Wilde returned after the death of Bill Owen

Looking at his career he only appeared in one more Production post Summer Wine a voice over for a cartoon . You have to wonder if ,after the success of Porridge and LOTSW, he decided to get out at the top like his co star in the former, Ronnie Barker et al .

Given it was eleven years after his last appearance before he sadly died, it has not been documented that he was suffering from major health issues [although agree Shingles is really nasty] , if ill health was not the reason to cease working then it either has to be he decided enough was enough or new work offers in aspects of acting he was hoping to pursue never materialised.

Some actors seem happy to play effectively the same character for pretty much the duration of their career [look no further than Stephen Lewis who played Blakey and clones Smiler / Harry Lambert ] whilst others stretch themselves into many genres and diverse roles think Brian was one of the latter .

I agree with ME2 the single rebel role character Cleggy would have completely altered the dynamics .
 
Adanor said:
It had been reported that Brian Wilde left the show due to an attack of shingles which is a disease which can inflict much pain and discomfort for an extended period of time. Perhaps he didn't wish to return because he was still was not feeling well.
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Some sources say Wilde wanted to return but decided after missing a full series that he was done with the character, and Bell's story about the potential guest return later cites the same thing, not health. However, Bell's account of Wilde's second departure varies from other versions and says he (Bell) decided to effectively fire Wilde because of excessive new compensation demands by Wilde. I don't think we fully (and may never fully) know what really happened.
 
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Sarkus said:
I continue to wish Foggy had made an appearance in one of the Compo passing episodes. Even a small cameo with a few lines at the funeral would have been perfect.

However, I don't see how Foggy could have returned as a regular after that. Bell says in his book that Wilde did consider a guest appearance a few years later, but changed his mind on it pretty quickly so nothing, not even a script, was developed around the idea. I personally think that the Truly-Clegg-Billy trio did work for a few years pretty well, once they got beyond the Tom period and before Peter Sallis began reducing his work load. Substituting Foggy instead of Billy would have been a pretty radical change to the core concept of how the characters interacted.
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Pretty well sums up my thoughts on this concept.
 
Hello Pearl. I hope all is well. This is quite an interesting thought, especially considering that Brian Wilde was apparently the one who recommended Frank Thornton as his replacement. So, if Brian Wilde would have returned, he probably would have gotten along with Thornton a lot better than Owen.

As for “Truly and Foggy”, I actually think they could have worked together. Foggy was like Seymour in that they were usually on some type of mission and were assertive as leaders. Truly started out as a curmudgeon, but after Compo’s passing, he became more friendly and affable. Truly was different from the other leaders because he was much more laid back. Perhaps he led just because the other guys were even less likely to take charge of anything.

It is possible that if Foggy would have returned to a trio with Truly and Clegg, that Truly might have ended up being Compo’s replacement. Truly would not provide the physical humor that Compo did but one thing they had in common was they were both mischievous. I recall Truly starting the panic of a tiger loose in town just for the fun of it. He could have followed along with Foggy just because he would have enjoyed finding different ways to aggravate Foggy or even sabotage his plans (not in a mean way). I think this could have worked and the show could have possibly returned to the earlier style with more verbal humor and storylines than physical humor.
 
codfanglers said:
Hello Pearl. I hope all is well. This is quite an interesting thought, especially considering that Brian Wilde was apparently the one who recommended Frank Thornton as his replacement. So, if Brian Wilde would have returned, he probably would have gotten along with Thornton a lot better than Owen.

As for “Truly and Foggy”, I actually think they could have worked together. Foggy was like Seymour in that they were usually on some type of mission and were assertive as leaders. Truly started out as a curmudgeon, but after Compo’s passing, he became more friendly and affable. Truly was different from the other leaders because he was much more laid back. Perhaps he led just because the other guys were even less likely to take charge of anything.

It is possible that if Foggy would have returned to a trio with Truly and Clegg, that Truly might have ended up being Compo’s replacement. Truly would not provide the physical humor that Compo did but one thing they had in common was they were both mischievous. I recall Truly starting the panic of a tiger loose in town just for the fun of it. He could have followed along with Foggy just because he would have enjoyed finding different ways to aggravate Foggy or even sabotage his plans (not in a mean way). I think this could have worked and the show could have possibly returned to the earlier style with more verbal humor and storylines than physical humor.
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I agree Truly was far more laid back - Truly was very much like Clegg in some aspects.

We have discussed a show with two 'third men', but let's not forget for a period the show consisted of two 'Compos' - Billy Hardcastle and Alvin. In fact the trio became something of a quartet - which was really against the format of the show, which always revolved round a trio.

I don't think any of these characters could replace Compo - they are far too different.

But Compo was in the show so long he couldn't be replaced anyway. It was embarassing at times seeing Alvin living in Compo's house talking to Nora Batty. It was more believable when Tom lived there, as it was his father's place, and also Nora had a shine for him.

Though it would seriously go against the grain, I do think a show with Clegg, Truly and Foggy would certainly be appealing in that it's got good actors and good, established characters. All the characters are pure LOTSW.
 
What if Brian Wilde returned after the death of Bill Owen

I find it strange that Roy Clarke and the Producers continued to maintain the leading trio and ladies coven ethos until the end, yet other established they did not continue to exploit the comic thread . The "mad" inventor role which provided props for the comic capers portrayed by Michael Aldridge and Gordon Wharmby, ceased after Wesley died in real life. When Stephen Lewis retired because of ill health the Smiler/Tom routines with Auntie were not continued, whilst Tom did struggle on he is not a strong enough character or dare I say it good enough comic actor to do that on his own.

I suspect the Alvin / Nora plot was developed to maintain the carefree neighbour vs staid/stern female lead that Compo/Nora had given us for years , although I believe Alvin feigned affection for Nora they at least were maintaining that alleged love interest and its more credible than anything with Tom[ unlike Roy Clarke's other hit the new Open All Hours where you have the Black Widow chasing after Granville] . When Nora bowed out they did try to continue the same plot with Stella and it did seem to be developing just as the show ended.

"What if" is only best guesses but at least it does provide good conversation.
 
captain clutterbuck said:
I find it strange that Roy Clarke and the Producers continued to maintain the leading trio and ladies coven ethos until the end, yet other established they did not continue to exploit the comic thread . The "mad" inventor role which provided props for the comic capers portrayed by Michael Aldridge and Gordon Wharmby, ceased after Wesley died in real life. When Stephen Lewis retired because of ill health the Smiler/Tom routines with Auntie were not continued, whilst Tom did struggle on he is not a strong enough character or dare I say it good enough comic actor to do that on his own.

I suspect the Alvin / Nora plot was developed to maintain the carefree neighbour vs staid/stern female lead that Compo/Nora had given us for years , although I believe Alvin feigned affection for Nora they at least were maintaining that alleged love interest and its more credible than anything with Tom[ unlike Roy Clarke's other hit the new Open All Hours where you have the Black Widow chasing after Granville] . When Nora bowed out they did try to continue the same plot with Stella and it did seem to be developing just as the show ended.

"What if" is only best guesses but at least it does provide good conversation.
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I am replying to this statement in particular so pardon me if I am getting too off topic.

Entwhistle started as Wesley's replacement but his electrical skills weren't used in the plots as were some of Wesley's projects in his shed. I enjoyed Enwhistle early on but his role gradually diminished (until Hobbo came along but he was hardly funny at all at the point).

I much preferred Tom as the shady character trying to make money any way possible and running from the bill collector. Although, he was good with Smiler, a mere employee to Auntie really didn't do him any good. I enjoyed the later years for quite some time but when Billy left the show lost some quality. I also feel Summer Wine lost more quality with Smiler leaving.

Personally I think they should have left the neighbor situation go after Compo passed away. Although the short time of Time and Mrs. Avery being in Compo's home worked.
 
codfanglers said:
Although the short time of Tom and Mrs. Avery being in Compo's home worked.
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I agree but would point out that Kathy Staff's decision to leave the show for a time is what probably ended the Tom/Mrs. Avery scenario. The story arc in that series goes from Nora and Mrs. Avery being rivals to Nora pushing Tom to marry and Mrs. Avery being apparently accepted into the ladies circle. My guess is that Roy Clarke intended to proceed with a married Tom. However when Kathy Staff left the show they had to rethink the whole thing and that is when Mrs. Avery disappeared and Tom was packed off to be Smiler's roommate as a secondary character. Which is an example of the fact that sometimes things on the show changed for reasons that had nothing to do with what Clarke and Bell wanted.

To get back to the original subject, I was rereading the Vine book and had forgotten that he says that Wilde had asked for (and received) promises of a reduced role even before his illness struck. Vine says episodes were already being worked on that would have featured Compo and Clegg with very little Foggy. That makes a return of Wilde later even less likely. Even though he was only 70 when he left the show, Wilde was clearly feeling his age much sooner then Owen and even Sallis, who were much older at that point.
 
What if Brian Wilde returned after the death of Bill Owen

Off subject again but I still stick by what I alluded to . Although definitely more tongue in cheek and not as outrageous they still maintained that relationship between Nora and her neighbour which just happened to be Alvin . There are plenty of examples of Alvin being "playful" with Nora offering to set her hair , offering her tea and toast outdoors at his table and chairs , think I am right he also tells her she needs to update her underwear when she is hanging it on the line and he calls her early morning when they are both still in bed, those and many other incidents support my belief that they were still trying to replicate the relationship Nora and Compo had. When Kathy Staff left they moved Barbara Young in as Stella to maintain that same relationship plot.

As you have said we will never know the real story about Brian Wilde's decision. I guess you would probably plump for Bell's version of events as he was working on the show whereas Vine is effectively a third party journalist . I haven't read Vine's book so don't know if he cites any sources from whom he got the information for his book?
 
captain clutterbuck said:
As you have said we will never know the real story about Brian Wilde's decision. I guess you would probably plump for Bell's version of events as he was working on the show whereas Vine is effectively a third party journalist . I haven't read Vine's book so don't know if he cites any sources from whom he got the information for his book?
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Vine doesn't cite specific sources, but he does quote people from interviews he did and from stuff that is in the public record. And Vine has no obvious bias in how he reports what he learned. Bell's book, on the other hand, has its own issues in that I'm not entirely comfortable just taking his version of events given that on at least some subjects he clearly has an agenda. So I don't know what to think about his version of Wilde's second departure.
 
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