Geatest ever sportsman or woman

Just two instances spring straight to mind, Samit Patel was stopped from playing tests because of his weight and general fitness.Colin Milburn in the 60s was overweight but boy could he hit a ball!! Even with his one eye! My own county has/had the greatest technical wicketkeeper in the country but his batting was suspect. So the powers that be decided he was surplus to requirements and instead of giving him batting coaching ,they tried to improve a good batsman's wicketkeeping!Since losing his England place Chris Read has gone on to be top scorer in a lot of Notts matches(another what might have been!) Joel Garner was a fearsome bowler , but not as good as Malcolm Marshall. I'm stopping this before it becomes "My Life As a TV Cricket Viewer "

I always thought that Chis Read was a good Wicket keeper and was unlucky to lose his place in the test side i think he lost it to Geriant Jones who we have down here at kent and who never really cut it at test level although he did pull off some big catches in the 2005 ashes series as for Joel Garner the'Bird' would get into my top 10 test bowlers.Not seen much county cricket for the last few years as Kent started to ask silly money for membership before that i was a member for nearly fifteen years


James.Curtley and Courtney Walsh what a combination and you are right about the west indies they used to be awsome but are having a bit of a hard time at the moment but i'm sure they will be back.Behind Football cricket is my second biggest passion in the sporting world although i do enjoy a bit of golf every now and again
 
The best bowler i ever saw must be Curtly Ambrose, what a bowler he was. He got over 400 test wickets at 20.99! Him and Courtney Walsh were as good an attack the Windies ever had.

I love my cricket but its just not the same without a strong West Indies team.

James, that attack cant be faulted mate, but they played many more Tests than predeccesors and on different pitches. Not that I'm decrying the achievements of Walsh and Ambrose as test bowlers, but Marshall, Holding and Garner were better for me and I saw both contemporaneously.
You re spot on about a strong West Indies team though. The world of Cricket just isnt the same.
I'm right in thinking arent I mate, that we had a discussion about the Fire in Babylon docu a few weeks ago? It was you wasn't it?

T'was me Chuff, i never saw the great west indian team, just to young. Obviously watched clips on youtube, fire in Babylon etc.. and got to say they were a scary site running in with the ball. Just watch Holding v Close, that man tried his best to not show any sign of pain but you can tell he was battered.
It was the infamous Tony Grieg 'grovel' test. Not a wise thing to wind up a team that could literally take your head off with bat or ball. Must say every good team needs a leader and Clive Lloyd must be the best from any sport.

Yeah, I think it really is all about era's mate. What you saw at an impressionable age. You always think the most fearsome of your childhood.formative years were the best.
There will be people who grew up in the 40's/early 50's that will tell you that Ray Robinson and Joe Louis were the greatest ever, people who were kids/teenagers in the 60's/70's that will tell you that was the Golden era and Ali was the greatest of all time......man, there are people from my generation that will tell you that Tyson was the most fearsome fighter and the best Heavy of all time. There will always be a counter argument from what has gone before.
I'd day that Holding, Marshall and Garner were fearsome, really, really fearsome, more so than Ambrose and Walsh or Waqar and Wasim, but an argument could be made for all.
I'll give you an argument that far from being the best and most fearsome of all time, that Tyson might only just and I mean just, make the top 10 heavyweights of all time, but again, it's perhaps a generational and taste thing.
 
Turned out to be a proper good thread this Amos. Fine work Amigo.
 
Your correct about generational views on particular subjects. RE: Tyson i would say he was a great fighter and his career is one of what could have been or should have been. Best boxers i saw would be Lewis, Tyson, Calzaghe, Mayweather and Pacquiao. The heavyweight division is just pants now, you just know whoever Klitschko fights will get beat not because they are great, just that they are boring and can grind a fight down.
Look at Valuev, just think Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Holmes had that title once. Who would you rather watch?

Chuff whats your opinion on Hagler? i think he was the best ever pound for pound fighter, i know Sugar Ray beat him but given a fair opportunity would have beat him in regards to ring size and glove weight.
 
:eek: NEVER INTO THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF BOXING BUT I SAW EARLY NEWSREEL OF MARCIANO AND AT THE TIME HE LOOKED FEARSOME!! YOU'RE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY ITS A GENERATIONAL THING AND THAT EACH ERA HAS ITS OWN HEROES. (JUST LIKE MY OWN ALL TIME LOVELIEST FILMSTAR IS SOPHIA LOREN, MODERN"LOVELIEST" WOMEN CANT HOLD A CANDLE) SO TO EACH HIS OWN IN EVERYTHING BUT PERSONAL CHOICE WILL ALWAYS RULE. ;)
 
:eek: NEVER INTO THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF BOXING BUT I SAW EARLY NEWSREEL OF MARCIANO AND AT THE TIME HE LOOKED FEARSOME!! YOU'RE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY ITS A GENERATIONAL THING AND THAT EACH ERA HAS ITS OWN HEROES. (JUST LIKE MY OWN ALL TIME LOVELIEST FILMSTAR IS SOPHIA LOREN, MODERN"LOVELIEST" WOMEN CANT HOLD A CANDLE) SO TO EACH HIS OWN IN EVERYTHING BUT PERSONAL CHOICE WILL ALWAYS RULE. ;)

On film stars how about Vivien Leigh of Gone with the wind? What a woman never mind the generational gap there Dick!!!
 
Your correct about generational views on particular subjects. RE: Tyson i would say he was a great fighter and his career is one of what could have been or should have been. Best boxers i saw would be Lewis, Tyson, Calzaghe, Mayweather and Pacquiao. The heavyweight division is just pants now, you just know whoever Klitschko fights will get beat not because they are great, just that they are boring and can grind a fight down.
Look at Valuev, just think Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Holmes had that title once. Who would you rather watch?

Chuff whats your opinion on Hagler? i think he was the best ever pound for pound fighter, i know Sugar Ray beat him but given a fair opportunity would have beat him in regards to ring size and glove weight.

On the subkect of Tyson mate, greatness included many criteria including longevity, application, focus, level of opponents, heart and character shown in adversity. Tyson was sadly short in quite a few of those. I would just, and only just place Tyson in the top 10 heavies of all time for a real lack of the above. Fearsome he might have been...for about 2 years when he knocked over nobodies, albeit convincinly. He lacked in the ticker department badly which is a pre-requisite of being an all time great.
Lennox Lewis had all the tools to be the greatest ever but was lacking that iron in his soul, the real proper mongrel in him that sorts the men out from the others. Had Lewis had a Frazier, Dempsey, Louis or Ali's heart, then yeah, he cudda been. But he wasn't.
Holyfierld wouldve beaten Tyson at any point during their respective careers, it was a man against a boy. Had Cus D'Amato lived another 5 years and the Rooney/Atlas training team stayed with him, thenh Tyson couldv've been, he had the talent, but no application or decision making. For most of his career Tyson was a 6 round fighter who had no idea what to do when it really got into the trenches.
I'll say this...I could have beaten Tony Tubbs, Tyrell Biggs and Pinklon Thomas. In his pomp, the best fighter Tyson fought was Tony Tucker and he was gun shy.
As for Hagler, he was immense, top 10 of all time, no question, an animal at the weight. Not the most naturally gifted bit togher than anybody. He was a beast, not far off the greatest Middleweight of all time.
The fight with Leonard has been something of a debate over time, well every year since 86 when they fought. My view is this.....Leonard won the fight. It was close, but Leonard won it. I've seen that fight maybe 150 times and then only reason Ray won it is because Marvin let him. Hagler messed around for the first 4 rounds trying to play Ray's game and he gifted it. There is no way that Ray SHOULD have won that fight, but he did and it was all Marvins fault. He has nobody to blame but himself.
Hagler was the better natural middle, but Ray was probably the better and ore natrurally gifted fighter.
Both Marvin and Ray are top 10 of all time.
 
:eek: NEVER INTO THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF BOXING BUT I SAW EARLY NEWSREEL OF MARCIANO AND AT THE TIME HE LOOKED FEARSOME!! YOU'RE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY ITS A GENERATIONAL THING AND THAT EACH ERA HAS ITS OWN HEROES. (JUST LIKE MY OWN ALL TIME LOVELIEST FILMSTAR IS SOPHIA LOREN, MODERN"LOVELIEST" WOMEN CANT HOLD A CANDLE) SO TO EACH HIS OWN IN EVERYTHING BUT PERSONAL CHOICE WILL ALWAYS RULE. ;)

Dick, Marciano is responsible for the 2nd greatest KO punch in a world title fight. The right hand he KO'd Joe Walcott with was something extraordinary.
The greatest punch Ive ever seen thrown was the left hook that Don Curry floored Milton McCrory with in their Welterwight unification fight.
Tysons left hook knockdown of Trevor Berbick was a great punch.
 
Terrible typing going on tonight folks, sorry. I'm typing as I think which is never good!
 
Terrible typing going on tonight folks, sorry. I'm typing as I think which is never good!
I do that when I'm trying to write a letter , so you're not on your own Rob :-[

Never drink, type and get excited at the same time Dick! I know I'm preaching to the converted here!
As for Sophia Loren....not my type really. Joan Fontaine was much, much nicer. Have you seen Rebecca? A classic beauty.
 
??? We've had nothing but men on this thread but it calls for sportswomen so how about Sally Gunnel or Virginia Wade??Maybe Chris Evert ?? Not forgetting maybe Mary Peters. :)
 
??? We've had nothing but men on this thread but it calls for sportswomen so how about Sally Gunnel or Virginia Wade??Maybe Chris Evert ?? Not forgetting maybe Mary Peters. :)

Good choices Dick also for services to tennis.Navaratalova or Steffi Graf fine champions.We also have Dame Kelly of course who comes from Kent.

Getting back to boxing i saw Larry Holmes once in London that guy was huge he was standing outside a McDonalds on the strand.My brother used to have a vhs video tape of somthing called superfight i think it was Thomas(the hitman)Hearns
v Sugar Ray Leonard but i'm not sure about this.







 
LOL, Steffi Graf is the first name in this thread that I recognise. Of course I would, having grown up with her name and Boris Becker´s in my ears ;).
 
My two loves are Rugby League and golf.

I was taken to rugby from a very young age but in all the 50 years I have been watching I have to sat that for me the late John Holmes of Leeds was probably the best stand off to pull on a shirt for GB or Leeds also Ellery Hanley (Bradford and Wigan) would have to be up there.

On the golfing front I have to say Jack Nicklaus. Tiger Woods has a club thrust into his hand by a father determined he was going to succeed and that for me is what rules him out as a truly natural talent.

As for sports women, then I have to say that for me Martina Navratilova is in a class of her own.
 
Ahh, I remember Eddie the Eagle, at least I remember his name and that he was funny, my mother liked him a lot and when I looked him up on youtube, I also did ;D. Nicely eccentric, just like the cliche says about the British.
 
Ahh, I remember Eddie the Eagle, at least I remember his name and that he was funny, my mother liked him a lot and when I looked him up on youtube, I also did ;D. Nicely eccentric, just like the cliche says about the British.

He was useless and as mad as a box of Frogs Bunny! Just how we like our sportsmen over here! We always back the underdog.
 
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