If Summer Wine were still on today, how much would it have changed?

Sarkus

Sarkus

Dedicated Member
It's getting close to four years since the last episode aired, and it occurred to me the other night that the show would probably be noticeably different if it was still on the air. If for no other reason than the age of the actors and others involved. Even if Bell and Clark were still doing their full jobs, a number of the actors may have moved on, not to mention those who have died. I mean, think about it:

No longer with us:

Truly (Frank Thornton)
Toby/The Captain (Trevor Bannister)

Advanced Ages:

Clegg (Peter Sallis - 93 )
Ivy (Jane Freeman - unknown, probably late 80s? )
Stella (Barbara Young - 78 )
Alvin (Brian Murphy - 80 )
Entwistle (Burt Kwouk - 83 )
Howard (Robert Fyfe - 89 )
Auntie (Jean Alexander - 88 )
Nelly (June Whitfield - 88 )

That's a lot of the cast that is up there in age, and some of them have been pretty inactive since the show went off the air. I think its likely that many of them would have either left the show or be limited in what they could do (based on the insurance stuff the limited what Frank Thornton and Peter Sallis were allowed to do the last two series.)

I guess what I'm saying is that I think the show would have been forced to change quite a bit by now if it had stayed on the air.
 
This has been discussed here at home about the same thing.

BTW I cannot find the link where I found the info , but Ivy ,I believe is the same age at Peter Sallis. 93.

Would they bring the younger generation in? Following around the latest group of men that are roaming the hills of Yorkshire.
 
Well now, I know for sure we would still hear, "Oh, Howard" but probably via cell phone. When not in use Howard would put it on vibrate, so Pearl wouldn't know. lol
 
Coincidentally the other day I was thinking about this same subject...

Unfortunately I think the very fact that we are discussing it kind of confirms that the BBC made the right decision in ending the show. Most shows struggle to cope with the loss of one actor/character so it is a testament to Roy Clarke`s ability that the program continued for so many years when the likes of Blamire, Foggy, Sid, Wally, Seymour etc. had to be replaced.

But for the last few series they were having to replace so many actors that they just couldn`t cope imo. For some of the later episodes you might see 15 different characters in the first 10 minutes and, to be frank, I struggle to remember which is which. This is a far cry from the early series of the show which were based around the 3 main characters with occasional appearances by Sid, Ivy, Nora etc.

If the show had continued then the situation would only have exacerbated and Alan Bell would presumably have been looking for more new cast members every year.
 
I suppose if it was still running the youngest regular cast would be PC Walsh at 61 followed by Glenda at 62.

Those still surviving of the major cast, who ages we know for sure

Cleggy 93
Howard 89
Pearl 76
Marina 70
Auntie 88
Barry 68
Smiler 78
Tom 65
PC Cooper 68
Entwistle 74
Alvin 71
Billy 76
Miss Davenport 75
Roz 91
Nelly 89
Morton 73
Hobbo 66
Stella 78
Alan Bell 76
Roy Clarke 84
 
maltrab said:
I suppose if it was still running the youngest regular cast would be PC Walsh at 61 followed by Glenda at 62.

Those still surviving of the major cast, who ages we know for sure

Cleggy 93
Howard 89
Pearl 76
Marina 70
Auntie 88
Barry 68
Smiler 78
Tom 65
PC Cooper 68
Entwistle 74
Alvin 71
Billy 76
Miss Davenport 75
Roz 91
Nelly 89
Morton 73
Hobbo 66
Stella 78
Alan Bell 76
Roy Clarke 84
Click to expand...

I think, as others have said, some of the cast members are unfortunately quite a bit older such as Burt Kwouk and Brian Murphy.
 
See now, I agree with you all. However, I didn't take the question that way. I don't think it mentions age. I took it to mean in these times.
 
Nicko12345 said:
I think, as others have said, some of the cast members are unfortunately quite a bit older such as Burt Kwouk and Brian Murphy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the ages I listed for those two are from Wikipedia, which is backed up by what IMDB says about their ages. So they are in their 80s. I'm also not sure why Maltrab put Roz and Billy on that list since they hadn't been on the show in a number of years when it ended in 2010.

I'm sure Alan Bell was aware he needed to freshen up the cast extensively if it was going to go on, but from what his book says it sounds like he felt that BBC support for the show was year to year from the mid-90s on. So he was probably afraid to tinker with the cast much until he got firm support that he'd be given time to make the transition. He got that support (from then BBC Controller Peter Fincham) when he moved to the Hobbo-Alvin-Entwistle trio, but after Fincham's abrupt departure due to scandal, his successor was much more cool to Summer Wine and, in Bell's mind, was looking for an excuse to drop the show.
 
I think that list also shows that the policy of hiring actors changed a lot from the show`s inception. Roy Clarke has commented that when the show began he didn`t want the cast to be too old and he wanted there to be some life left in them. From the 1990s onwards however this had certainly changed...

There is a part of me that thinks that bringing in actors in their 50s or early 60s might have given the show more chance of longevity. But, at the same time, I was astonished to discover that latecomers to the show like Burt Kwouk and Brian Murphy appeared in more episodes of LOTSW than David Jason appeared in episodes of Only Fools and Horses! I guess that proves that the BBC gave it a fair crack of the whip.
 
I think it would focus on the younger ones like Barry and Glenda. Anyone think Howard and Marina would still be seeing each other? In the last episode, she appeared to have moved on from him, but maybe they'd get back together if it continued. What do ya'll think?
 
Marina'sTwin said:
Anyone think Howard and Marina would still be seeing each other?
Click to expand...

I think that Jean Fergusson probably was ready to move on, if not from the show, then from spending so much time in those skimpy costumes out of doors in Pennines weather that fluctuates between chilly and cold even in summer. Unlike the rest of the cast, she couldn't wear long thermals, so she just had to repress the shivering and get on with the job.

Marianna
 
index4u said:
I think that Jean Fergusson probably was ready to move on, if not from the show, then from spending so much time in those skimpy costumes out of doors in Pennines weather that fluctuates between chilly and cold even in summer. Unlike the rest of the cast, she couldn't wear long thermals, so she just had to repress the shivering and get on with the job.

Marianna
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Good point. If the weather stays cold over there, then she was probably freezing in those costumes.
 
Marina'sTwin said:
Good point. If the weather stays cold over there, then she was probably freezing in those costumes.
Click to expand...

She mentioned it to Andrew Vine and he quoted her in his book. She and Howard were also often dunked in reservoirs, rivers and a dangerously polluted canal. Robert Fyfe couldn't swim so she sometimes found herself pushed under because in his panic he had put his foot on her head.

The weather in the valleys is just the average British rain alternating with overcast, relieved by an occasional sunny day, but up where most of the location filming took place, the temperature is much lower and the weather changes much more abruptly. Even in mid-summer, a sensible person carries a wooly hat and mittens.

Marianna
 
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maltrab said:
I suppose if it was still running the youngest regular cast would be PC Walsh at 61 followed by Glenda at 62.

Those still surviving of the major cast, who ages we know for sure

Cleggy 93
Howard 89
Pearl 76
Marina 70
Auntie 88
Barry 68
Smiler 78
Tom 65
PC Cooper 68
Entwistle 74
Alvin 71
Billy 76
Miss Davenport 75
Roz 91
Nelly 89
Morton 73
Hobbo 66
Stella 78
Alan Bell 76
Roy Clarke 84
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Terry. This confirms, that no matter how much we (most of us) would like to see a comeback, it just isn't realistic with the old cast. You would pretty much need an entirely new cast. Billy was younger than the rest when he was on but look at his age now. Yes, he could still act at 76 but I don't know about any long term commitment.

My own personal ideal for the new trio is Barry, Billy, and Bobby Ball. However, let Keith Clifford enjoy retirement. I checked. Bobby Ball is 70. Perhaps he and Barry could go on a bit.

I know most of you disagree, but perhaps Hobbo could join Barry and Bobby Ball. I think Barry being one straight person with two barmpot-like characters could work. Most of us agree that Russ Abbott wasn't so much the problem, but the way his character was written into the show.
 
I think if the show were still running it would very much like when it finished.

The biggest difference would be the very sad loss of Frank Thornton.

I suspect there wouldn't have been much of a mention of the absence of Truly however, perhaps a brief comment. It seems Roy Clarke doesn't always mention the passing of a long standing character, especially if they are (as it turned out in Series 30 and 31) a secondary character.

I would like to think Peter Sallis would still be doing very brief cameo appearances in each episode, maybe this time with Robert Fyfe as Howard, like the old days, passing notes to Marina.

I reckon Hobbo, Alvin and Entwistle would still be the main characters.

I would assume Jane Freeman would be making appearances.

And I think all the others who were present in the final series would still be doing exactly the same as before.

Though I think Morton would be a bit lonely now, I think this would have made a fairly good new theme.
 
Age was always going to be an issue as time went by, there was always the chance of someone retiring, falling ill or passing away. Frank Thornton and Trevor Bannister passed away yet both looked like they were in good health in the final series.

It's actually remarkable that so many of them still look quite youthful and healthy for their age. You would never guess that Robert Fyfe is 89 and Brian Murphy is a youthful looking 80. But age and illness has caught up with some, Peter Sallis, Jane Freeman and Jean Alexander might struggle to appear now had the series gone on. Could there be a LOTSW without Sallis, the last of the old guard? I doubt it, especially as there hadn't been much of an attempt to come up with a new more youthful trio that could take it forward.

The final trio was a poor balance of these ages, Abbott 66, Murphy 80 and Kwouk 83. In that final series Kwouk was really beginning to look his age. The trouble is that there was never really a more up and coming middle age element to the series to move it forward once the old guard were gone. Russ Abbott was 66, Tom Owen 65 and even Mike Grady is 68, although again you wouldn't think that to look at him but any in their fifties?

Actually, someone mentioned Louis Emerick as being 61, both IMDb AND Wiki give that as his age. However Google suggest that he was born in 1960 which would make him 54. If he is 61 then he is a remarkably youthful and fit looking 61. A 54 or even 61 year old Emerick was the right age for a member of a new trio, at least if you are looking for another 10 years of the series.

This prompted me to think of a possible alternative. What about the two policemen? One or both could have been part of a new trio. First possibility could be Walsh being offered and taking early retirement. He'd be part of a new trio that would occasionally bump into Cooper and his new young but green partner. Alternatively, both of them get early retirement and are teamed up with a slightly dodgy third character, who they occasionally came into contact with when they were in the force. Bobby Ball's character might have fitted the bill.

There were possible alternative trios, even from within the existing cast, but Clarke and Bell seemed to stick with the cosiness of what was rather than making any radical change. That only came too late with the introduction of Hobbo, perhaps the most unbelievable character to ever appear. The milkman who thought he was James Bond.
 
I think our own Dick & Pearl would make a good Howard & Pearl judging by the banter between them on the Forum:wink:
 
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