It's Never Ten Years questions

codfanglers

codfanglers

Dedicated Member
Hello Folks,

We have a holiday here in the states so I am able to stay home and watch two airings of Summer Wine this afternoon. We might get a snow storm tomorrow so I might end up home tomorrow and Wednesdat to catch up on more! That is one of the benefits to being a teacher.

Anyway, the Sunday night episode was It's Never Ten Years. It is the second time I have seen it. Here are two questions.


1. The first one is really about Last Pigeon and Post- I really enjoyed the mishap in the hotel room with the dresser and the pigeon. It reminded me of the scene from the great Boarding House Bathroom Caper where they have the mishap with the ferret. Do you think the scene from Last Post and Pigeon was meant to be a bit of a reflection from the earlier classic? Are there other later episodes where some scenes might have been influenced by earlier episodes?

2. Also, what are your thoughts Clegg and Trully telling Alvin (one of Compo's replacements) all about Compo's adventures and moments with Nora?

Just curious
 
I also noticed a similarity between between Last Post and Great Boarding House. I don't know if that was intended, but as it was such a good scene sometimes it's good to re-work similar themes.

I understand Clegg and Truly did the 'action' in order to give an unwell Bill Owen less to do while still remaining in the scene. Clever, eh?

I would say there were very few later episodes influenced by early episodes.

The funeral trilogy, however, reflected on early shows - notably Compo borrowing Clegg's best suit - which happened as long ago as Series Three. Also there were some shots of locations seen in the early days, and that photograph of Sid.

I liked the idea of Clegg and Truly talking to Alvin about Compo. I think this was the only time old clips were you in an episode of LOTSW. In some shows, especially US ones, this strikes me as a bit tacky - but here it worked very well and make a good episode. The Bill Owen credit at the beginning is enough to give you goose bumps.

It's interesting they only used fairly recent episodes, from the 90s, and no former characters appeared like Foggy or Wesley.

It should be remembered the episode was actually 8 years after Compo's passing, not 10 years.

Since the series ended two years after this, this episode would have made a very acceptable final episode.
 
Opps! I wrote "Last Pigeon and Post"!

wstol said:
I also noticed a similarity between between Last Post and Great Boarding House. I don't know if that was intended, but as it was such a good scene sometimes it's good to re-work similar themes.

I understand Clegg and Truly did the 'action' in order to give an unwell Bill Owen less to do while still remaining in the scene. Clever, eh?
Click to expand...

Ahhh yes, now I see what you are talking about. Compo was wiped out in bed when Clegg and Trully did all the work.



And yes, WSTOL, I also found it odd that they selected a certain few episodes for the flashbacks. The eight year difference was odd as well. This topic has been discussed before but I don't think anyone here came to the conclusion as to why they did this 8 years after Compo's passing instead of 10.
 
wstol said:
I also noticed a similarity between between Last Post and Great Boarding House. I don't know if that was intended, but as it was such a good scene sometimes it's good to re-work similar themes.

I understand Clegg and Truly did the 'action' in order to give an unwell Bill Owen less to do while still remaining in the scene. Clever, eh?

I would say there were very few later episodes influenced by early episodes.

The funeral trilogy, however, reflected on early shows - notably Compo borrowing Clegg's best suit - which happened as long ago as Series Three. Also there were some shots of locations seen in the early days, and that photograph of Sid.

I liked the idea of Clegg and Truly talking to Alvin about Compo. I think this was the only time old clips were you in an episode of LOTSW. In some shows, especially US ones, this strikes me as a bit tacky - but here it worked very well and make a good episode. The Bill Owen credit at the beginning is enough to give you goose bumps.

It's interesting they only used fairly recent episodes, from the 90s, and no former characters appeared like Foggy or Wesley.

It should be remembered the episode was actually 8 years after Compo's passing, not 10 years.

Since the series ended two years after this, this episode would have made a very acceptable final episode.
Click to expand...

It definitely would have made a fitting final episode. They should have made that the very last episode instead of the one we got with a wedding of a character that we have never heard of before that didn't take place. I believe they did the episode when they did because the following year Peter and Frank were demoted [It makes no sense really because Truly, Cleggy and Alvin weren't out all that much. They were mostly in Clegg's house looking at photos. ]
 
JohnMc said:
wstol said:
I also noticed a similarity between between Last Post and Great Boarding House. I don't know if that was intended, but as it was such a good scene sometimes it's good to re-work similar themes.

I understand Clegg and Truly did the 'action' in order to give an unwell Bill Owen less to do while still remaining in the scene. Clever, eh?

I would say there were very few later episodes influenced by early episodes.

The funeral trilogy, however, reflected on early shows - notably Compo borrowing Clegg's best suit - which happened as long ago as Series Three. Also there were some shots of locations seen in the early days, and that photograph of Sid.

I liked the idea of Clegg and Truly talking to Alvin about Compo. I think this was the only time old clips were you in an episode of LOTSW. In some shows, especially US ones, this strikes me as a bit tacky - but here it worked very well and make a good episode. The Bill Owen credit at the beginning is enough to give you goose bumps.

It's interesting they only used fairly recent episodes, from the 90s, and no former characters appeared like Foggy or Wesley.

It should be remembered the episode was actually 8 years after Compo's passing, not 10 years.

Since the series ended two years after this, this episode would have made a very acceptable final episode.
Click to expand...

It definitely would have made a fitting final episode. They should have made that the very last episode instead of the one we got with a wedding of a character that we have never heard of before that didn't take place. I believe they did the episode when they did because the following year Peter and Frank were demoted [It makes no sense really because Truly, Cleggy and Alvin weren't out all that much. They were mostly in Clegg's house looking at photos. ]
Click to expand...

I believe there were some insurance issues with the older actors being outdoors. Not sure how that worked, but I do recall Peter Sallis talking about it. He also had eyesight problems and talks about it in this edition of Desert Island Discs from 2009. They weren't getting any younger and Frank Thornton passed away in the last year or so. It might have been too much to ask of them to go wandering around the hills at their age, even if the insurance issues could be overcome.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00kc1lz
 
Thing is though, It's Never Ten Years wasn't even the finale to Series 29. I think there was one (or two) episode that followed, that wasn't anything particularly special.

It would have made a fitting finale to Series 29, and Clegg and Truly in larger roles.

In some ways it's a shame Series 30 and 31 were made, as Series 29 had Clegg and Truly at top billing, had It's Never Ten Years near the end, and was at a point where the series was a neat and tidy 35 years old.

Alan JW Bell was always determined to keep the show running a lot longer, even without Clegg and Truly.

I remember him being very excited about Russ Abbot coming into the show. Though I like Russ Abbot, there's not much to get excited about if it means two favourite stars are getting replaced by him.
 
It was always going to be difficult to transition to what became the final trio. I think they missed the boat in not trying to do it sooner. Given age, health and insurance issues, it was sad but probably inevitable that Peter Sallis and Frank Thornton would have to be relegated to more supporting roles in the final two series. Had they done it 5 years earlier who knows what might have happened?

As for the final trio, even they had an age inbalance as Burt Kwouk and Brian Murphy were late 70's and early 80's while Russ Abbot was in his early 60's. The brave thing would have been to have gone for a newer, younger trio perhaps closer to the original ages in the early series, but that probably would have meant going for relatively unknown comedy actors and trying to start over. The gamble was taken that Russ Abbot could save the series and while he has shown he's a decent actor, I still can't for the life of me figure out who decided that the Hobbo character should be portrayed like someone from his Madhouse era. I just don't think he was right for LOTSW, or at least Hobbo wasn't played right and the character's story left a lot to be desired to.

Mind you, I do think for many of us the real LOTSW era did indeed end with Series 29. It's Never Ten Years would have been a fitting ending had they been thinking that way at the time. However, I think at that time there was still some desire to keep it going, although given that the last remaining main character in Clegg and Peter Sallis was reaching an age where it might be difficult for him, the writing was perhaps on the wall. I can't imagine LOTSW without Peter Sallis.
 
I am eternally thankful that Peter Sallis did appear in every episode.

He is the main link between the first episode and the last episode. I wouldn't want the show to continue without him.

I think in one later episode the age of Hobbo is revealed, and I think he's only about 50.

Hopefully someone, can confirm this for me.

DARRENNNNN!
 
wstol said:
I am eternally thankful that Peter Sallis did appear in every episode.

He is the main link between the first episode and the last episode. I wouldn't want the show to continue without him.

I think in one later episode the age of Hobbo is revealed, and I think he's only about 50.

Hopefully someone, can confirm this for me.

DARRENNNNN!
Click to expand...

yeah there was one episode he was revealed to be in his 50's, although I don't think his specific age was mentioned but Hobbo was definitely in his 50's and im sure it was in series 30 it was revealed
 
As a series "reset" it makes sense to go back to characters in their 50s, since that is what Clegg, Compo, and Blamire were supposed to be when the show started. I didn't realize Murphy and Kwouk were quite that old, though. I think with Murphy they brought him in to try and pair with Clegg and Truly so an older actor made sense, especially after a much younger Tom had not really worked out a few years earlier. Presumably they felt they needed to tie Hobbo to the show by pairing him with characters that had some history with the show and so created the Hobbo/Alvin/Entwistle trio, but I'm sure they had some thought of transitioning those other two out in a few years for younger actors. I could see Barry in a later trio, for example.

From what Bell says in his book, he felt they had good BBC support at the top in the later years, with a future secured, when suddenly there was an unexpected leadership change and the new controller had no interest in the series. So that explains why they didn't think of ending the series as Salis and Thornton reached the realistic end of their careers as lead characters on the show. One thing I wish Bell would have explained is that he says he had some expectation when they were filming "Big Day at Dream Acres" that it might be the final episode (which is why he put himself in it in a cameo), but he never says why he felt that.
 
Sarkus said:
One thing I wish Bell would have explained is that he says he had some expectation when they were filming "Big Day at Dream Acres" that it might be the final episode (which is why he put himself in it in a cameo), but he never says why he felt that.
Click to expand...

he appeared in "Extra, Extra" for his cameo
 
DJWCFC said:
Sarkus said:
One thing I wish Bell would have explained is that he says he had some expectation when they were filming "Big Day at Dream Acres" that it might be the final episode (which is why he put himself in it in a cameo), but he never says why he felt that.
Click to expand...

he appeared in "Extra, Extra" for his cameo
Click to expand...



Did he? I didn't know that, where was he?
 
Pearl-Susan. said:
DJWCFC said:
Sarkus said:
One thing I wish Bell would have explained is that he says he had some expectation when they were filming "Big Day at Dream Acres" that it might be the final episode (which is why he put himself in it in a cameo), but he never says why he felt that.
Click to expand...

he appeared in "Extra, Extra" for his cameo
Click to expand...

Oops. Yeah, that was the episode he said he appeared in because he thought the show might be ending. My mistake - should have looked it up to be sure. :-[



Did he? I didn't know that, where was he?
Click to expand...
 
Sarkus said:
As a series "reset" it makes sense to go back to characters in their 50s, since that is what Clegg, Compo, and Blamire were supposed to be when the show started. I didn't realize Murphy and Kwouk were quite that old, though. I think with Murphy they brought him in to try and pair with Clegg and Truly so an older actor made sense, especially after a much younger Tom had not really worked out a few years earlier. Presumably they felt they needed to tie Hobbo to the show by pairing him with characters that had some history with the show and so created the Hobbo/Alvin/Entwistle trio, but I'm sure they had some thought of transitioning those other two out in a few years for younger actors. I could see Barry in a later trio, for example.

From what Bell says in his book, he felt they had good BBC support at the top in the later years, with a future secured, when suddenly there was an unexpected leadership change and the new controller had no interest in the series. So that explains why they didn't think of ending the series as Salis and Thornton reached the realistic end of their careers as lead characters on the show. One thing I wish Bell would have explained is that he says he had some expectation when they were filming "Big Day at Dream Acres" that it might be the final episode (which is why he put himself in it in a cameo), but he never says why he felt that.
Click to expand...

A quick search gives Murphy's age as 80 and Kwouk as 83, so they both would have been mid to late 70's in the final series. Abbot is now 66, so if it is the case that his LOTSW age was mentioned as 50 it's not so surprising that he wore that silly wig. I did think that in the final series Burt Kwouk was beginning to look his age and both he and Murphy were somewhat relegated to being the support for Russ Abbot's Hobbo. At times they were almost surplus to requirements as it became the Hobbo show.

Regardless of leadership changes I'm still not surprised that the BBC ended it when they did. I actually think that one of the reasons why it probably went on for so long was because of the "longest running" title that it had and also it was like part of the furniture, it was just there. Most classic comedies don't survive change or don't even attempt it. After all, would we want to watch Only Fools without DelBoy and Rodney? How about Fawlty Towers with a totally new hotel staff? Porridge with totally new prisoners and prison staff? Dad's Army continuing with a totally different platoon? The Likely Lads with different Likely Lads, which actually was tried with Ant and Dec and what a joke that was.

LOTSW didn't have a right to survive and carry on just because it had been going on for so long. Of course, the BBC didn't have an obvious replacement for the LOTSW audience something they are now trying to put right with a series like Grey Mates being commissioned (with Russ Abbot thankfully minus wig, we might see how good an actor he can be in this). Having said that, I don't think LOTSW ever only appealed to an older audience, I started watching it from school age as did many others in my class I recall and that was back in the more gritty days of Compo, Clegg and Blamire!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2013/grey-mates.html

I think it would have been better had it ended with a swansong for Clegg, who was the last surviving original major character and in one respect it was appropriate that he had the last say in the final episode. The unfortunate thing was that the final episode in itself was not a particularly good send off, whereas a final one off reminiscing the past with Clegg at the center of it would have been more appropriate.
 
Agree Clegg should have been the center of the show and reminiscing. Some American shows finale were disappointing Seinfeld for one. Of course our shows lasted 9 -10 years. Most of our shows at one time or another did some flashback episodes. This one needed something special. Clegg was the man :respect:.
 
Philosopher Clegg said:
I think it would have been better had it ended with a swansong for Clegg, who was the last surviving original major character and in one respect it was appropriate that he had the last say in the final episode. The unfortunate thing was that the final episode in itself was not a particularly good send off, whereas a final one off reminiscing the past with Clegg at the center of it would have been more appropriate.
Click to expand...

I could not agree more! However, I still like How Not to Cry at Weddings. I view it as just a regular episode.


 
Sarkus said:
As a series "reset" it makes sense to go back to characters in their 50s, since that is what Clegg, Compo, and Blamire were supposed to be when the show started. I didn't realize Murphy and Kwouk were quite that old, though. I think with Murphy they brought him in to try and pair with Clegg and Truly so an older actor made sense, especially after a much younger Tom had not really worked out a few years earlier. Presumably they felt they needed to tie Hobbo to the show by pairing him with characters that had some history with the show and so created the Hobbo/Alvin/Entwistle trio, but I'm sure they had some thought of transitioning those other two out in a few years for younger actors. I could see Barry in a later trio, for example.
Click to expand...

Yes, in many previous discussions I supported the idea of Barry becoming one of the trio. Yes, he would have been different than previous trio members, however, like Sarkus said, the show would have needed to reset back to the original form with main characters in the 50's/early 60's. Also, I don't see the need to try to exactly duplicate the past, it could have gone in a slightly different diirection.

I also understand the sentiment that it really wouldn't have been Summer Wine without Clegg and Trully. Therefor, perhaps the show could have went on with a name change. Of course, this is only speculation.
 
Cod, I was thinking about that the other day. It was going to be called The Library Mob however after a while they were rarely in the library so I wonder how different the whole show would have been without the name change. You couldn't really have a show called the library Mob without going into the library.
 
brendalovescompo said:
Agree Clegg should have been the center of the show and reminiscing. Some American shows finale were disappointing Seinfeld for one. Of course our shows lasted 9 -10 years. Most of our shows at one time or another did some flashback episodes. This one needed something special. Clegg was the man :respect:.
Click to expand...

However, the big difference with US comedy sitcoms is that each series can be anywhere between 18 and 30 episodes! They often have a team of writers. In the UK series tend to be between 6 and 10 episodes. I've just started watching an old favorite of mine as the episodes were on Youtube, 3rd Rock From The Sun, 6 series, 139 episodes, most of which I didn't see first time around as I don't think that they were all shown here in the UK. I think the BBC showed a couple of series, but not all.

With LOTSW I do agree, don't think it could have gone on without Clegg and it was only a matter of time before he might not be able to do it anymore. As he is in his 90's I would have hoped that he would be enjoying some retirement time.
 
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