All Apropos of Nothing

[Big Unc]

How my memory (failing) led me into a potential solecism - I recalled incorrectly a Morse episode where Morse accused a newspaper reporter of illiteracy because he used 'apologise' in an article whereas the Oxford English Dictionary would have it 'apologize'. My faulty memory got it the wrong way round and I now insist on apologise, the '-ise' spelling.

I think I slightly misled myself in that I thought '-ise' more likely to be correct coming from a French root whereas '-ize' would be a US corruption. Turns out that the root is not French but Greek. And contrary to the Oxford English Dictionary in UK '-ise' is far more common. I think Wikipedia on the topic makes fascinating reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ..._spelling_differences#Greek-derived_spellings

And I think I will just harmonise my practice with the more English usage as, at the end of the day, it is harmonisation on the home front which we seek. (It is sad that there are those in Scotland who resent the fact that the language we use is designated 'English'.)

 

[barmpot]

When I posted:



I now realise I really should have added a few :wink:s and :me:s.

I need to get ready to go out for an appointment. But when I get a chance later we can go into the complexities of either '-ise' or '-ize' endings to words. I realise or realize you will all be waiting with bated breath.

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:​

I await the outcome .....:yawn::yawn::yawn:

 

[Marianna]

I think I slightly misled myself in that I thought '-ise' more likely to be correct coming from a French root whereas '-ize' would be a US corruption. Turns out that the root is not French but Greek. And contrary to the Oxford English Dictionary in UK '-ise' is far more common.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, do native speakers of British English pronounce the '-ise' ending differently from the '-ize' ending. So '-ssss' rather than '-zzzz'? Or do British speakers pronounce 'apologise' the same way that native speakers of American English pronounce 'apologize', with a definite '-zzzz'? (I've never particularly noticed a difference, so I expect that it's '-zzzz', as my very American ears would have noticed '-ssss'.)

Does the software for this forum come from the States? The spell checker reacts to 'apologise'.

Marianna

 

[Pearl]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, do native speakers of British English pronounce the '-ise' ending differently from the '-ize' ending. So '-ssss' rather than '-zzzz'? Or do British speakers pronounce 'apologise' the same way that native speakers of American English pronounce 'apologize', with a definite '-zzzz'? (I've never particularly noticed a difference, so I expect that it's '-zzzz', as my very American ears would have noticed '-ssss'.)

Does the software for this forum come from the States? The spell checker reacts to 'apologise'.

Marianna

I think we do have more emphasis on the ssss, from what I've heard on the TV Americans do seem to say izz.

"Does the software for this forum come from the States? The spell checker reacts to 'apologise'."


That could be your computer, I can turn mine over to American English willy nilly.

 

[cornishman]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, do native speakers of British English pronounce the '-ise' ending differently from the '-ize' ending. So '-ssss' rather than '-zzzz'? Or do British speakers pronounce 'apologise' the same way that native speakers of American English pronounce 'apologize', with a definite '-zzzz'? (I've never particularly noticed a difference, so I expect that it's '-zzzz', as my very American ears would have noticed '-ssss'.)

We are wierd, we spell it "-ise" but pronounce it "-ize"

Does the software for this forum come from the States? The spell checker reacts to 'apologise'.

vBulletin is very British (Reading to be precise), though it has been taken over by one of these behemoth US mega-corporations. Do a google on it, you'll see some very harsh comments regarding Internet Brands...... "only in it for the money" springs to mind. I do realise that business is there for that very reason, but at the expense of the end user?
The software, as with virtually all software (until recently), only comes with the US dictionary!

 

[Pearl]

We are wierd, we spell it "-ise" but pronounce it "-ize"

The software, as with virtually all software (until recently), only comes with the US dictionary!

Maybe you say it differently down there Tony but up here we tend to say ssss !

 

[barmpot]

Just tried saying -ise and -ize and have realised that I can not hear any difference in the sounds. Of course my pronunciation is what is known as RP (Received Pronunciation) so does not alter according to latitude.

​

 

[Big Unc]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, do native speakers of British English pronounce the '-ise' ending differently from the '-ize' ending. So '-ssss' rather than '-zzzz'? Or do British speakers pronounce 'apologise' the same way that native speakers of American English pronounce 'apologize', with a definite '-zzzz'?

Does the software for this forum come from the States? The spell checker reacts to 'apologise'.

Marianna

We are wierd, we spell it "-ise" but pronounce it "-ize"

Maybe you say it differently down there Tony but up here we tend to say ssss !

Just tried saying -ise and -ize and have realised that I can not hear any difference in the sounds. Of course my pronunciation is what is known as RP (Received Pronunciation) so does not alter according to latitude.

​

Delighted as to how that stirred things up.

I would say categorically that for the group of words to which I was referring, those that have that Greek origin, we pronounce the last syllable '-ize' and not '-ise'. Here we have 'realise', 'apologise' and 'harmonise' as examples. In fact, thinking about it, very few words ending in '-ise' are pronounced with the ssss sound. There are a few and one that immediately comes to mind is 'practise', the verb, which is pronounced the same as 'practice', the noun. In fact, to get the '-ise' sound, we generally use a 'c'. Think of 'price' as opposed to 'prize'. One ingenious pair is 'device' uses a 'c' and pronounced like a 's' as compared with 'devise' which uses an 's' pronounced like a 'z'.

Go on like this and it will be almost Zebedee time.

But must not forget spellchecker. I seem to have fixed something such that on this website it does not blink whichever spelling I use, contemporise or contemporize. Or all of the above.

But don't ask me how I did it.​

​

 

[Pearl]

I've been walking round the house talking to myself nauseating all the sss words and trying to say them with an izz, maybe its the way I speak but I'm saying ssss and not zzzz. Now the window cleaner, the man over the back, my son and the fish think I've lost the plot!!

 

[Big Unc]

Thinking on the pronunciation of the letter 's', can anyone think of another word like 'sugar' where it is pronounced 'sh':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

​

 

[Big Unc]

I've been walking round the house talking to myself nauseating all the sss words and trying to say them with an izz, maybe its the way I speak but I'm saying ssss and not zzzz. Now the window cleaner, the man over the back, my son and the fish think I've lost the plot!!

Struggling with this a wee bit because I cannot envisage how to pronounce 'realise' with the last syllable using the sss sound.

Think about the word 'lice'. Not for too long as it is not a pretty word. That is pronounced 'lise', with the 'c' softened to 's'. I just cannot bring myself to pronounce 'realise' as 'realice'. To me, it just comes out 'realize'.

And going right back to someone else. 'Weird' is a weird word because it should be 'i' before 'e' except after 'c' and not after 'w'. My spellchecker picks up on wierd.

 

[Pearl]

Struggling with this a wee bit because I cannot envisage how to pronounce 'realise' with the last syllable using the sss sound.

Think about the word 'lice'. Not for too long as it is not a pretty word. That is pronounced 'lise', with the 'c' softened to 's'. I just cannot bring myself to pronounce 'realise' as 'realice'. To me, it just comes out 'realize'.

And going right back to someone else. 'Weird' is a weird word because it should be 'i' before 'e' except after 'c' and not after 'w'. My spellchecker picks up on wierd.

It must be the way a talk then, I'll be passing your way in a few weeks so If you're very unlucky I'll come round for tea and talk the socksssssss off you
Weird my spellcheck shouts at me for spelling it wierd!!

 

[Adanor]

If you think that realize is bad; you ought to consider the word "Aluminum." On this side of Pond, it comes out as a-LUM-i-num. on the other side of the Pond it comes out as AL-um-i-num, I think. Anyway, I will probably stand corrected.

 

[Pearl]

I think its more. Al-u-min-yum.

Watch the end bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX5y4PPk1Zk

 

[Big Unc]

It must be the way a talk then, I'll be passing your way in a few weeks so If you're very unlucky I'll come round for tea and talk the socksssssss off you
Weird my spellcheck shouts at me for spelling it wierd!!

You now have me wondering if it is some weird local dialect which has you pronouncing 'realise' or 'realize' as 'realice'. Does strike me as the need for a reality check. I will try to listen out for Midland actors on TV and see if I can note it. Must ask my daughter living in Loughborough.

8) 8) 8) 8)​

 

[Big Unc]

If you think that realize is bad; you ought to consider the word "Aluminum." On this side of Pond, it comes out as a-LUM-i-num. on the other side of the Pond it comes out as AL-um-i-num, I think. Anyway, I will probably stand corrected.

As Pearl has stated, not quite right. Yes, on your side of the pond it is a four syllable word with stress on second syllable. Here it is a five syllable word, Aluminium with stress on the third syllable.

From http://lostinthepond.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/why-do-americans-pronounce-it-aluminum.html

So why do Americans pronounce it "Aluminum"?

British prescriptivists - that is, Brits who do not welcome change to the language - would tell you that the U.S. respelling owes much to "American arrogance"; that it is just another example of "the Yanks needlessly simplifying the language". However, just a cursory amount of research into the matter will tell even the most ardent linguistic conservative that the matter is not quite that simple.

It all began, apparently, when an indecisive British chemist by the name of Sir Humphrey Davy in fact coined the now archaic word "alumium" in 1808. However, referring to the element in his 1812 book Elements of Chemical Philosophy, he would use the word "aluminum", much as Americans do today.

It was British scientists of the time, however, that decided, with a beautiful level of verbosity, that: “Aluminium, for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound.”

Be that as it may, scholars in both countries continued to use both variants of the word throughout the early 1800s, only for the industrial boom - and the onset of mass production - to bring the word to national attention (it had largely only been used within science circles initially).

Devising a new, inexpensive method for producing the metal in 1892, American chemist Charles Martin Hall opted to incorporate the "aluminum" variant - which had gained popularity following its inclusion in the 1828 Webster's Dictionary - on his advertising literature, despite having used "aluminium" on all of his patents. It could be argued, then, that "aluminum" in fact remained in the American vernacular quite by accident, if it is to be believed that the variant used in his advertising materials was nothing more than a typo.

"Aluminum" would later be accepted as the official spelling by the American Chemical Society, and though the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry officially recognizes "aluminium", its American counterpart is accepted as an alternative.

History aside, part of me still prefers to imagine a group of Klingons storming the bridge of USS Aluminum. Perhaps this notion will prove, during debates about the word's history, a far more concise, if inaccurate, explanation.

And this might amuse: http://lostinthepond.blogspot.co.uk/p/british-english-vs-american-english.html#.URXwp6VfC-2

 

[Pearl]

Is there a suitable emoticon for a pedant?

Could we create one - I could use this!!


c:

:::

If we're ordering new smilies can we have one for "Doh"

 

[Big Unc]

If we're ordering new smilies can we have one for "Doh"

As in, "Doh, a deer, a female dear"?

 

[Pearl]

I wouldn't say I was a dear female.......... In fact I'd say I was quite cheap

I don't like roses, I proffer daffodils. I think diamonds are hideous so cheap is a good word

 

[dick]

Adding zzzzzs to a word is irritating at times. As in "Beanz meanz Heinz" .No wonder spelling is out the window!!.You have "pop" groups like Ndubz(?) and a modern spelling of one of my old time faves Spike Jonz. I can see where they get these ideas but as I say , no wonder young spellers of today get it wrong! ???