The Billy Hardcastle period

Sarkus

Sarkus

Dedicated Member
I've been watching some of the post-Compo series lately and it does seem rather odd the way they treat Billy Hardcastle/Keith Clifford. He essentially is the "third man" in the trio but he doesn't get equal billing, like all the previous third men did, and they tend to often involve Tom in the group as well. Later on they added Alvin and had a four man group before dropping Billy altogether, and I think he's the only "third man" to leave the show and get no explanation for his departure, though I could be wrong on that.

Its almost like they (Bell and Clark) were never really committed to the character.
 
I always liked, Billy he was an amiable idiot ,henpecked and finding his freedom with the boys it was a shame he hurt his back and could not carry on.His character could have carried on to the end and would have provided many a happy story that could have done away with the Hobo character.
 
chris said:
I always liked, Billy he was an amiable idiot ,henpecked and finding his freedom with the boys it was a shame he hurt his back and could not carry on.His character could have carried on to the end and would have provided many a happy story that could have done away with the Hobo character.
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So he had to leave because of his back pain. I always wondered. Billy was my favorite character; Wesley second; Alvin came third. I hope that doesn't make me fickle! :-[ :-\ :-\ :-\
 
Spot on Sarkus.

Billy Hardcastle never seemed an equal 'one third' of the trio, and as you say, often being substituted by Tom or Alvin.

In the series in which Bill Owen died, it was clear by the end Tom was going to be part of the trio with Clegg and Truly.

By the next series, it seemed the makers had decided that wasn't going to work, and that Billy Hardcastle would be more suitable.

Then a few years later they were clearly trying the Alvin character out, and even moved him nextdoor to Nora Batty, where Tom had previously lived as well.

The show then had three Compo replacements at the same time, and the star billing was all over the place.

In the 8 years Billy Hardcastle was in the show, he never seemed to get the recognition he deserved by the makers, as his character would sometimes disappear, and his name wouldn't always be in the top three credits.

In all that time, I don't think the general public really accepted him either. You mention his name to an average viewer, he won't know him.

I think because he wasn't a particularly well known actor worried the makers, and they wanted Brian Murphy to appear more.

After all Bill Owen's massive impact, I thought it appropriate for someone like Keith Clifford to quietly take over.
 
It seems unfair to be so good at his character and not get the recognition he deserved. >:(
 
chris said:
I always liked, Billy he was an amiable idiot ,henpecked and finding his freedom with the boys it was a shame he hurt his back and could not carry on.His character could have carried on to the end and would have provided many a happy story that could have done away with the Hobo character.
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Yes it was ashame about Keith Cliford having to leave due to back problems. We can complain all we want about the decline of Trully and Clegg's roles in the end, but the truth is Thornton and Sallis were quite up there in the years. Clifford however, was younger. If he was able to stay around, his character and Barry could have possibly helped Summer Wine run longer.

I would have loved to have seen Clarke and Bell include more of his archery mishaps!
 
wstol said:
In the series in which Bill Owen died, it was clear by the end Tom was going to be part of the trio with Clegg and Truly.

By the next series, it seemed the makers had decided that wasn't going to work, and that Billy Hardcastle would be more suitable.

Then a few years later they were clearly trying the Alvin character out, and even moved him nextdoor to Nora Batty, where Tom had previously lived as well.
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If I remember right, Bell mentions being interested in Brian Murphy before he came to the show, so I wonder if Billy was viewed as a temporary substitute. As you note, they did seem to have this idea of using Tom as Compo's replacement, and then had to back off on that because of what I understand was a pretty negative public reactions to the episodes that finished off the series where Compo died. So maybe they just went with Billy because he'd been a popular recent guest star by default, hoping he could fill the third man role while they tried to rework Tom.

I didn't know that Clifford left the show for health reasons - I guess I just assumed that they let him go after Alvin was firmly established. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done with Alvin and Billy as the core of a new trio when Truly and Clegg were reduced to secondary roles.
 
Speaking of Tom Owen, there was one episode that was kind of foreshadowing in a way. I forget which episode it was but it was the one where Auntie Wainwright "employs" Smiler to push the loaded handcart and Compo ends up helping Smiler and of course, ends up riding in style on top of the load. I think that was one of the last shows that Bill Owen did. Then of course, later on Tom ended up spending a lot of time helping Smiler to push the cart.
 
I think they could have made more of his character, I wasn't a big fan but then again I was raised on the Compo Foggy and Clegg.
 
Susan-Pearl. said:
I think they could have made more of his character, I wasn't a big fan but then again I was raised on the Compo Foggy and Clegg.
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I am on record as suggesting that the Billy Hardcastle made a great contribution to the later years of the show. And I always felt that his was a character which Roy Clarke developed superbly. Using him in conjunction with Clegg, some of the best dialogue throughout the whole duration of the show was developed. I certainly felt his was a far greater contribution than Alvin's. It was a great shame an element of ill health meant we lost him and his would have been a great input right to the end.
 
There was always going to be a tricky period after the death of Bill Owen, it was obvious you could not replace Compo. Tom as his son didn't really fit because he was far younger than Truly and Clegg, the audience didn't really take to that idea. Perhaps because of Bill Owen's death, the series then moved more towards a collective with several characters being seen more together rather than the traditional trio. Billy then emerged as one of the better characters, but unfairly didn't really get the same recognition as others when he became part of the trio.

I liked Billy and felt that he was one of the better characters introduced in the later years. It was unfortunate when he left because along with Alvin I think he would have been a better option from which to form a new trio. I also thought that in an episode that Bobby Ball appeared in there was a chemistry between the three which I happen to think would have made a decent trio. I'd rather have watched those three together in the last two series than what we got in Hobbo, Alvin and Entwistle.
 
Initially I was appalled at the idea of Tom Owen appearing as Compo's never-before-mentioned long lost son, but given more time possibly it could have worked with him as one of the trio.

The obvious problems were his age, and his family.

Traditionally, the trio were the same age and single.

Then the same problem occured with Billy Hardcastle. The actor was clearly younger (though later they tried to 'age' him a bit), and the character was married. Obviously the character was created in the Compo years, otherwise things may have been different.

But is very apparent Billy was treated more like a secondary character SOME of the time.
 
With Compo's passing I got the growing impression that they writer/producer were planning for the future. With Cleggy and Trully not growing any younger were they trying to line up a new trio? First Billy and Tom then Alvin.
After Wesley, Billy was my favourite character and I was definitely miffed when he left, and yes he most certainly should have been given more credit, and I feel could have made a quality member of any replacement trio!
 
Philosopher Clegg said:
There was always going to be a tricky period after the death of Bill Owen, it was obvious you could not replace Compo. Tom as his son didn't really fit because he was far younger than Truly and Clegg, the audience didn't really take to that idea. Perhaps because of Bill Owen's death, the series then moved more towards a collective with several characters being seen more together rather than the traditional trio. Billy then emerged as one of the better characters, but unfairly didn't really get the same recognition as others when he became part of the trio.

I liked Billy and felt that he was one of the better characters introduced in the later years. It was unfortunate when he left because along with Alvin I think he would have been a better option from which to form a new trio. I also thought that in an episode that Bobby Ball appeared in there was a chemistry between the three which I happen to think would have made a decent trio. I'd rather have watched those three together in the last two series than what we got in Hobbo, Alvin and Entwistle.
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Philosopher Clegg,

I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I have been through many discussions in the past about ideas of characters for comebacks and if there was really an authentic trio after Compo. Like you, I view the post Compo years as a larger collection of Barmpot characters getting into various mishaps. Billy was a good part of this mix. I still don't see an actual trio (until they tried Hobbo, Entwhistle, and Alvin.

I also mentioned before about the potential of Bobby Ball being a regular member. I recall suggesting that Barry (even though he was married), Bobby Ball, and Billy become a trio. There were in a similar age group.

You suggest Bobby Ball, Billy, and Alvin. Interesting. Although, who would have played the Clegg-type role, and who would have been the third man? To me they are all sort of Compo-type characters.
 
codfanglers said:
Philosopher Clegg said:
There was always going to be a tricky period after the death of Bill Owen, it was obvious you could not replace Compo. Tom as his son didn't really fit because he was far younger than Truly and Clegg, the audience didn't really take to that idea. Perhaps because of Bill Owen's death, the series then moved more towards a collective with several characters being seen more together rather than the traditional trio. Billy then emerged as one of the better characters, but unfairly didn't really get the same recognition as others when he became part of the trio.

I liked Billy and felt that he was one of the better characters introduced in the later years. It was unfortunate when he left because along with Alvin I think he would have been a better option from which to form a new trio. I also thought that in an episode that Bobby Ball appeared in there was a chemistry between the three which I happen to think would have made a decent trio. I'd rather have watched those three together in the last two series than what we got in Hobbo, Alvin and Entwistle.
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Philosopher Clegg,

I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I have been through many discussions in the past about ideas of characters for comebacks and if there was really an authentic trio after Compo. Like you, I view the post Compo years as a larger collection of Barmpot characters getting into various mishaps. Billy was a good part of this mix. I still don't see an actual trio (until they tried Hobbo, Entwhistle, and Alvin.

I also mentioned before about the potential of Bobby Ball being a regular member. I recall suggesting that Barry (even though he was married), Bobby Ball, and Billy become a trio. There were in a similar age group.

You suggest Bobby Ball, Billy, and Alvin. Interesting. Although, who would have played the Clegg-type role, and who would have been the third man? To me they are all sort of Compo-type characters.
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Barry was a difficult one for a trio because he did have a full time job at the Building society so where would he get the time to go off wandering? They got around it with Entwistle although he ran his own business, but for me the trio had always been essentially unemployed or forced into early retirement. Barry had his own little professional trio of friends in the final few series, but not sure it always worked, they could be quite silly at times.

I think Billy could have been the third man. For a start he was quite tall, he had his own fantasy as the descendant of Robin Hood and he could come across as quite an authority figure at times. Alvin had a touch of Clegg about him in that he was quite laid back, again the character could have been developed. Bobby Ball would have been the Compo like fall guy, albeit slightly more nutty. It would have been a different trio, but one that might have worked well together. In Brian Murphy and Bobby Ball you have two decent comedy actors, the latter being as big a name as Russ Abbot back in the 80's. Ball also had a more natural northern voice, something which the series had got away from as time went on. He's good at playing those parts. Keith Clifford was somewhat underrated, it's a pity that health issues seemed to take him out of the series and unfortunate that he seemed to disappear without explanation.
 
I haven't seen that one Ron-po. My favorite of the ones I have seen is Gnome and Away. It was corney but I loved it. :D
 
Yes that is a brilliant e ,this afternoon he was shooting arrows at Clegg and missing ,Smiler as a father Christmas as well.
 
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