What is happening to vowels?

@ codfanglers:
LOL, thank you :D! Most of the time my head is alright, and I can usually work out what Eli means quite quickly (but with a bit of thinking though), though I don´t use such abbreviations. I guess I also belong to that younger generation, or almost, that somehow gets used to such things quicker.

Yeah, generally speaking, I´m also a bit of a pedant about spelling. I may not get the English grammar right, but usually I think I don´t make many spelling mistakes. I like language and I enjoy books that are written beautifully. I have read some really dreadful ones, the same tacky phrases over and over again, and it annoyed me so that I didn´t pay attention to the story enough any more (just like barmpot with that spelling mistake).
 
**** said:
@ codfanglers:
LOL, thank you :D! Most of the time my head is alright, and I can usually work out what Eli means quite quickly (but with a bit of thinking though), though I don´t use such abbreviations. I guess I also belong to that younger generation, or almost, that somehow gets used to such things quicker.

Yeah, generally speaking, I´m also a bit of a pedant about spelling. I may not get the English grammar right, but usually I think I don´t make many spelling mistakes. I like language and I enjoy books that are written beautifully. I have read some really dreadful ones, the same tacky phrases over and over again, and it annoyed me so that I didn´t pay attention to the story enough any more (just like barmpot with that spelling mistake).
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**** I have read most of your posts, as I have of many others, on this forum and I can not recall ever seeing any glaring grammatical errors.

I was once told at work to rewrite a report as I had 'split an infinitive' which was considered an awful thing to do in the early 1980s in government circles! These days not everyone knows what a split infinitive is - let alone make that error.

I blame Star Trek for that change however - to boldly go ....
 
barmpot said:
**** said:
@ codfanglers:
LOL, thank you :D! Most of the time my head is alright, and I can usually work out what Eli means quite quickly (but with a bit of thinking though), though I don´t use such abbreviations. I guess I also belong to that younger generation, or almost, that somehow gets used to such things quicker.

Yeah, generally speaking, I´m also a bit of a pedant about spelling. I may not get the English grammar right, but usually I think I don´t make many spelling mistakes. I like language and I enjoy books that are written beautifully. I have read some really dreadful ones, the same tacky phrases over and over again, and it annoyed me so that I didn´t pay attention to the story enough any more (just like barmpot with that spelling mistake).
Click to expand...



**** I have read most of your posts, as I have of many others, on this forum and I can not recall ever seeing any glaring grammatical errors.

I was once told at work to rewrite a report as I had 'split an infinitive' which was considered an awful thing to do in the early 1980s in government circles! These days not everyone knows what a split infinitive is - let alone make that error.

I blame Star Trek for that change however - to boldly go ....
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A couple of points here Rod

1.You can now get split infinitives cured at the doctors

2.And we all know it should be to boldly went
 
dick said:
I have mentioned this before but I have one daughter who sends me txt spk messages. Her excuse is that she has teenage children who send similar messages to her. My other daughter has no children and cannot stand anything but "proper" english.If anyone forgets, she sends the message straight back to them with a long drawn out whaaaaaaat at the end.They have to resend in "proper" english.As for spelling mistakes surely all modern pc s have spell check??I still send mistakes through though :-[
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Hello Dick, this is the reason I posted this topic in the first place I usually do has your daughter does and send it back with a message saying "Once again in English please !!!!"
 
maltrab said:
[....

I was once told at work to rewrite a report as I had 'split an infinitive' which was considered an awful thing to do in the early 1980s in government circles! These days not everyone knows what a split infinitive is - let alone make that error.

I blame Star Trek for that change however - to boldly go ....
Click to expand...

A couple of points here Rod

1.You can now get split infinitives cured at the doctors

2.And we all know it should be to boldly went
[/quote]


;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D
 
One other thing, Barmpot. People say providing when they mean provided. My boss does it all the time. It's only a small matter but somehow it narks me! It's not as though my grammar is wonderful but thats one thing that, for some reason, makes me mad!
 
Rhi said:
One other thing, Barmpot. People say providing when they mean provided. My boss does it all the time. It's only a small matter but somehow it narks me! It's not as though my grammar is wonderful but thats one thing that, for some reason, makes me mad!
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Rhi, I really could have done without the distraction but this one really intrigued me this morning. Why is "provided" correct as opposed to "providing" in this context? In contrast, in similar construction of a sentence, "considering" would be correct whereas "considered" would just not fit at all.

Drove me into thinking exactly what part of the verb "to provide" we are using here. Obviously not the present or past participle though identical in form (whichever is correct). Not the gerund - that is the verb noun form. Not the gerundive - adjective - and there is some doubt whether verbs in English have a gerundive in their conjugation. Seems like a conjunctive adverb but what word defines that in the conjugation of a verb?

One of my personal bêtes noires is failure to use the personal possive determiner part of the pronoun with the gerund and to use the object pronoun instead. As in "He saw me going". To me that is wrong. "Going" is the gerund and is a noun. It is like saying "I carried me books to school". However, I read that this particular rule about the gerund is being relaxed.
 
If someone said 'I will visit provided I have time'. Providing there would just be daft.No one is providing anything, least of all the time to visit. Besides which my English teacher told me 35 years ago that it was right. I do not question him! And I have no idea what a gerund is.
 
Rhi said:
One other thing, Barmpot. People say providing when they mean provided. My boss does it all the time. It's only a small matter but somehow it narks me! It's not as though my grammar is wonderful but thats one thing that, for some reason, makes me mad!
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Checking Sir Ernest Gowers (p 172 in the 1973 Pelican version) state that 'provided (that)' is better than 'providing' and should be reserved for a true stipulation and not used loosely for if. If the use of 'provided that' creates difficulties which are resoled by using a simple 'if'.
 
Rhi said:
If someone said 'I will visit provided I have time'. Providing there would just be daft.No one is providing anything, least of all the time to visit. Besides which my English teacher told me 35 years ago that it was right. I do not question him! And I have no idea what a gerund is.
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Was not disageeing with you but trying to analyse why "provided" is correct as opposed to "providing". Sadly what English teachers said 35 years ago might have been correct then but no longer hold water now given the wretched deterioration in standards. But that is not to say we should give up on trying to maintain standards. After all, it is only through the rigid adherence to the rules of grammar, given the complexity of the English language that in general ambiguity can be avoided (as in "Eats shoots and leaves").

Further analysis, including using Google to translate into French, suggests to me that in this context the word "provided" has little to do with the verb "to provide". For the verb "to provide" the French might use the verb "fournir" (as in "to furnish"). But in the context in which we are using "provided" they would use the word "pourvu". In our context the word "proviso" is much more applicable.

Fascinating language - long may it be employed correctly!
 
Big Unc said:
.....Sadly what English teachers said 35 years ago might have been correct then but no longer hold water now given the wretched deterioration in standards. But that is not to say we should give up on trying to maintain standards. After all, it is only through the rigid adherence to the rules of grammar, given the complexity of the English language that in general ambiguity can be avoided (as in "Eats shoots and leaves").

......
Fascinating language - long may it be employed correctly!
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Agree! Language is changing and even though I may not like it I suspect that I will do little to change the change. However I shall continue to use Standard English; it will probably come as no surprise that I speak with Received Pronunciation (RP).
 
Susan said:
I wish I hadn't asked now :'(
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Why so sad Susan??? At least you were thought provoking ! Not like the twitters (or should it be twits ?) who were agog because Emily Maitlis (a newsreader) had worn a collar similar to a Dr Who "baddie". ::)
 
dick said:
Susan said:
I wish I hadn't asked now :'(
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Why so sad Susan??? At least you were thought provoking ! Not like the twitters (or should it be twits ?) who were agog because Emily Maitlis (a newsreader) had worn a collar similar to a Dr Who "baddie". ::)
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No Wayyy, thats awful ( I think) she has some nerve! ( I think ) ;) ;D
Maybe I should join twitter??? :D
 
I was at a coffee morning with a few old friends, and brought this subject up. We all agreed with you Susan. But we also agreed that it is probably too late to change things round. I don't tweet or twitter (well I may Twitter a bit, ask my husband!) I do sometimes read the comments you get about news items, but I hate the way people speak to each other.

We had cake at the coffee morning by-the-way, but no eclairs!!!
 
Sue said:
I was at a coffee morning with a few old friends, and brought this subject up. We all agreed with you Susan. But we also agreed that it is probably too late to change things round. I don't tweet or twitter (well I may Twitter a bit, ask my husband!) I do sometimes read the comments you get about news items, but I hate the way people speak to each other.

We had cake at the coffee morning by-the-way, but no eclairs!!!
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What cake did you have :)
 
amos hames said:
Sue said:
I was at a coffee morning with a few old friends, and brought this subject up. We all agreed with you Susan. But we also agreed that it is probably too late to change things round. I don't tweet or twitter (well I may Twitter a bit, ask my husband!) I do sometimes read the comments you get about news items, but I hate the way people speak to each other.

We had cake at the coffee morning by-the-way, but no eclairs!!!
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Yes its vital we know what cake you had?? :D Please give us all the details of said cake ;)
I also call it twittering but the husband calls it nogging :)
What cake did you have :)
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Sue said:
I was at a coffee morning with a few old friends, and brought this subject up. We all agreed with you Susan. But we also agreed that it is probably too late to change things round. I don't tweet or twitter (well I may Twitter a bit, ask my husband!) I do sometimes read the comments you get about news items, but I hate the way people speak to each other.

We had cake at the coffee morning by-the-way, but no eclairs!!!
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Did you drink in synchronisation?
 
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