All That Glitters Is Not Elvis - Cringe worthy moments?

[Nicko12345]

I got the impression over the years that Clegg appeared to have some thing against Wales and the Welsh .Similar to Michael Caines character had agaist the Dutch!

Ah, the reason I mentioned this is because it obviously has the irony of a man hating xenophobia also despising the Dutch. Not exactly earth shattering but a progression from simple, `I don`t like Germans` jokes from an earlier era.

 

[Big Unc]

I don`t think many younger comedy fans would be offended by the Tommy Cooper style jokes at all. They would just think they were older than all of Summer Wine`s cast combined. :wink:

For example. the jokes about Germans and Japanese in 2005 and 2006 don`t get a laugh in LOTSW because they are old and there is no wit or creativity in the writing.

Contrast them with the line Michael Caine uttered in Austin Powers which is seen as something of a classic:

`There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures...and the Dutch!`

Context and intelligence is a lot more important than political correctness. That`s why Chris Morris can make successful comedy TV shows and movies about child abuse and terrorism, whereas old fashioned comedians like Stan Boardman disappeared from view decades ago.

After some of the comments made on this thread I was much amused to catch a part of a 'Waiting for God' episode this morning in which Diana, slightly bemoaning an inability to have children comes out with something along the lies of, 'Anyone can have children. Spotty pop stars. Estate agents. Even the Welsh'.

I am reminded of the adage that there is no such thing as a new joke - or is it something like that throughout time there have only ever been three jokes.

Like Dick (I think), I have severe difficulty distinguishing any great difference in merit between:
`There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures...and the Dutch!`
and:
"Do you think Father Christmas looks drunk?"
"I think he looks worse than that."
"German?"

My response to assertions about something 'which is seen as something of a classic' is along the lines, 'Yes, but by whom?'

I vaguely recall Stan Boardman. Not sure of his relevance. I had difficulty recalling anything by Chris Morris. Checked and realised his general line is to try to shock and try to call it comedy. Beloved of the BBC types who think comedy now must be in your face and dotted with bad language. I am reminded of a cartoon I posted a day or so back on another thread:

 

[Big Unc]

The old acting as spoilt as the young:

Somewhat supports contention that there is no such thing as a new joke.

And somewhat puzzled by the assertion that there was no audience reaction to:
"Do you think Father Christmas looks drunk?"
"I think he looks worse than that."
"German?"

 

[Big Unc]

Who? Me?

 

[Nicko12345]

After some of the comments made on this thread I was much amused to catch a part of a 'Waiting for God' episode this morning in which Diana, slightly bemoaning an inability to have children comes out with something along the lies of, 'Anyone can have children. Spotty pop stars. Estate agents. Even the Welsh'.

I am reminded of the adage that there is no such thing as a new joke - or is it something like that throughout time there have only ever been three jokes.

Like Dick (I think), I have severe difficulty distinguishing any great difference in merit between:
`There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures...and the Dutch!`
and:
"Do you think Father Christmas looks drunk?"
"I think he looks worse than that."
"German?"

My response to assertions about something 'which is seen as something of a classic' is along the lines, 'Yes, but by whom?'

The general public maybe?
.
The difference is context. But it`s all about opinions of course.

Not sure a 20 year old sitcom about pensioners is the place to look for new jokes but there we are. :-[

It`s all about different values for different people isn`t it and I`m not saying there is any definite right or wrong. For example, you gave a list of jokes about the Irish, Muslims, Asians etc. which you obviously don`t mind but you complain about the BBC having too many swear words on their shows. I`m sure there are many people who would say that swearing is absolutely harmless in the right context but that jokes about races and religions are less acceptable. Both valid opinions and it doesn`t make either group fuddy-duddies or members of the political correctness brigade.

There is still plenty of great stuff on TV nowadays and plenty of bilge as there always has been.

 

[WesleyRocks]

Wow what a good thread.
So here is my 2 cents.....
A little story first. I have lived 2 places in my life. A small town in PA and Tallahassee FL (which really is like south Georgia).
Growing up there were no African American folks in our town, none at all. I know that when a black family would move in, they would immediately move out ( stories are, they were told to move out, I don't know this for a fact). I was told black people were stupid, dirty, and lazy. I was even taught not so good terms for items that referred to black people, even some of the things we'd say at the playground were racial slurs. I was teased that if I moved to Florida I'd end up with a N#^$() girlfriend (it actually makes me uncomfortable writing that)
When I moved to Tallahassee, there was about a 50/50 mixture black to white. In PA, I went to a one building high school, when I moved to Tally, it was a 10 acre campus. I had no clue where any of my classes were or how to get there. They handed me a map and that was all. A black girl come up to me, as I stood in courtyard trying to read the map, and said "you're lost aren't you?" I said "yes". She took me for the next 5 days to each of my classes. At that point, my perspective of life changed, all those things I was told, out the window. I actually found that black people loved me for some reason, and I found that because I was a "Yankee, (a term used for northern folks here)" I was shunned more by the white people.
What!!!! This was not what I was told growing up.
Anyways, just as UK folks have different ways of doing things from the Americans doesn't mean we can't all get along and let each of us enjoy our own culture as well as each others' cultures.
I have found that learning about different cultures is really cool. I love how black folks here where I live, are still very strong in family reunions. My family has lost that, through "busyness of life".We used to have family reunions every year. All gone now.
I think that PC is running wild, but I also understand that some people are raised a certain way (some, a way that is not very good, with hatred) and they are not willing to change.
So, there is my 2 cents, sorry so long.

 

[Marianna]

"Do you think Father Christmas looks drunk?"
"I think he looks worse than that."
"German?"

Finally had to follow up on a dim recollection that has been teasing at the edge of my mind. According to an article in the Telegraph at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-to-claim-under-threat-Father-Christmas.html, the German Weihnachtsmann (Father Christmas) was invented as a secular figure early in the 20th century so Protestants could have a secular substitute for St Nicholas.

Since the trappings of the contemporary British Christmas celebration are largely German in origin, it isn't surprising that the cloak in the early German Christmas card that illustrates the Telegraph article looks a lot like the Father Christmas costumes in Last of the Summer Wine. So the Father Christmas in question really did look German, as well as drunk. Another of Roy Clarke's clever double entendres.

Marianna

 

[Marianna]

And somewhat puzzled by the assertion that there was no audience reaction to:
"Do you think Father Christmas looks drunk?"
"I think he looks worse than that."
"German?"

Me too. My initial response to that assertion was, 'So what am I, chopped liver?' Maybe the studio audience didn't laugh, but there's no way to know the depth of their understanding of either the origins of the contemporary Christmas celebration or of the concept of the double entendre.

I doubled over laughing, as much because of the double entendre as because of the literal meaning.

Marianna

 

[Nicko12345]

Finally had to follow up on a dim recollection that has been teasing at the edge of my mind. According to an article in the Telegraph at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-to-claim-under-threat-Father-Christmas.html, the German Weihnachtsmann (Father Christmas) was invented as a secular figure early in the 20th century so Protestants could have a secular substitute for St Nicholas.

Since the trappings of the contemporary British Christmas celebration are largely German in origin, it isn't surprising that the cloak in the early German Christmas card that illustrates the Telegraph article looks a lot like the Father Christmas costumes in Last of the Summer Wine. So the Father Christmas in question really did look German, as well as drunk. Another of Roy Clarke's clever double entendres.

Marianna

I`m glad if you enjoyed the joke Marianna. But I would honestly be flabbergasted if Roy Clarke was thinking about the British television audience in 2005 getting a reference like that.

If he was, then he was 100 years out of date rather than the 10 or 15 that I originally thought.

 

[Pearl]

Wow what a good thread.
So here is my 2 cents.....
A little story first. I have lived 2 places in my life. A small town in PA and Tallahassee FL (which really is like south Georgia).
Growing up there were no African American folks in our town, none at all. I know that when a black family would move in, they would immediately move out ( stories are, they were told to move out, I don't know this for a fact). I was told black people were stupid, dirty, and lazy. I was even taught not so good terms for items that referred to black people, even some of the things we'd say at the playground were racial slurs. I was teased that if I moved to Florida I'd end up with a N#^$() girlfriend (it actually makes me uncomfortable writing that)
When I moved to Tallahassee, there was about a 50/50 mixture black to white. In PA, I went to a one building high school, when I moved to Tally, it was a 10 acre campus. I had no clue where any of my classes were or how to get there. They handed me a map and that was all. A black girl come up to me, as I stood in courtyard trying to read the map, and said "you're lost aren't you?" I said "yes". She took me for the next 5 days to each of my classes. At that point, my perspective of life changed, all those things I was told, out the window. I actually found that black people loved me for some reason, and I found that because I was a "Yankee, (a term used for northern folks here)" I was shunned more by the white people.
What!!!! This was not what I was told growing up.
Anyways, just as UK folks have different ways of doing things from the Americans doesn't mean we can't all get along and let each of us enjoy our own culture as well as each others' cultures.
I have found that learning about different cultures is really cool. I love how black folks here where I live, are still very strong in family reunions. My family has lost that, through "busyness of life".We used to have family reunions every year. All gone now.
I think that PC is running wild, but I also understand that some people are raised a certain way (some, a way that is not very good, with hatred) and they are not willing to change.
So, there is my 2 cents, sorry so long.

Wesley that to me just shows that even if someone is brought up to be prejudiced they can change and I think that is what makes us better than those that don't want to or even try to change.

 

[dick]

Wesley that to me just shows that even if someone is brought up to be prejudiced they can change and I think that is what makes us better than those that don't want to or even try to change.

Thinking on what you said Pearl reminded me of my dad who was (or could be ) a bigot. I grew up even handed in my dealings with everyone. It goes to show like you say that you don't have to absorb bigotry . I think my kids are much like me and hopefully will continue to be.

 

[barmpot]

That's on similar lines as Cleggy's Welsh remarks is it not??

There were quite few comments - often from Clegg - about Lancashire!

Actually very interesting discussion and valid but varied points. I like the reminder that we got a lot of our Christmas from Germany so could be all sorts of references there. Of course the Victorians adopted certain Germanic things as their Queen's consort hailed from what we know call Germany.

But reading a reference to Germans - about 30 years ago in Leeds a local man (one of the volunteers on a charitable housing project I was involved in at the time) referred to hands as Germans. Eventually I had to ask him why? He said it was a form of rhyming slang - German bands = hands. Now I spent quite a bit of time near London so familiar with rhyming slang in the Cockney sense but not something that is so common in Yorkshire.

The other point is that German Bands - popular in this country at the start of the 20th century disappeared in 1914 with the start of the Great War. So this man was using slang which relied on a phrase that had been effectively extinct for 70 years. What it tells me is that some remarks need an awful lot of research to fully unpack as to why they were used.

How's that for wandering off topic in true SW fashion?

Language is fascinating - and the English language continually changes; but the pace of change varies from locality to locality - or did; probably less obvious now.

 

[Marianna]

... the pace of change [of language] varies from locality to locality - or did; probably less obvious now.

Maybe part of the curse of mass media. The resulting homogenization makes travel a bit less interesting, although it's still one of my favorite things to do.

Marianna

 

[maltrab]

There were quite few comments - often from Clegg - about Lancashire!


Language is fascinating - and the English language continually changes; but the pace of change varies from locality to locality - or did; probably less obvious now.

Sadly these days you can get by with just three words "Like,Kinda and u'no"

 

[barmpot]

Sadly these days you can get by with just three words "Like,Kinda and u'no"

yes and we do it - I clicked "like" this post!!

Help am I getting more modern? ;D

 

[barmpot]

Maybe part of the curse of mass media. The resulting homogenization makes travel a bit less interesting, although it's still one of my favorite things to do.

Marianna

Yes very true.

One of my subjects studied was about language and its psychology. I was very taken by what were known as isoglosses - lines drawn on a map that showed the extent of certain words indicating the limits of certain civilisations or invasions over the years. A simple example was the word brook - used in southern England, becomes beck by Yorkshire which becomes burn in Scotland. I used to teach in a Wiltshire School which had an Anglo Saxon name - Hreod Burna which would translate as Rodbourne (a nearby area of Swindon next to the Railway Works) or being totally southern Redbrook!


In Yorkshire the words teacake and breadcake can mean the same thing but it depended on whether you were in Bradford or Leeds.

When I lived near Cas (Castleford) water was invariably pronounced "watter" by the older inhabitants (this was nearly 30 years ago) but I suspect that is no longer the case as our language loses its individuality. However I still speak SE with RP (Standard English with Received Pronunciation) so fit anywhere! Or not - in Cas I stood out as totally different, I was always called "posh" ;D ;D :biggrin: :biggrin: because of my lack of accent or dialectical terms.

 

[dick]

T v does not help. I mentioned on a previous thread that I was sat in the sun outside a clothes shop in York waiting for my wife and daughter to come out. A group of lads came by chatting. They were giving it a lot of thee's tha's and tha knows but what surprised me as they parted, it was see you "lay ah" as per East enders. Where I live in the East Midlands we call people " me duck" like others say pet, luv, mate etc. Apparently it means something totally opposite in Exeter and Devon and can get you in real trouble. If you say it to a man he may think you are doubting his masculinity. My eldest had a boyfriend from there and made the mistake of using the phrase on a visit once.

 

[Pearl]

T v does not help. I mentioned on a previous thread that I was sat in the sun outside a clothes shop in York waiting for my wife and daughter to come out. A group of lads came by chatting. They were giving it a lot of thee's tha's and tha knows but what surprised me as they parted, it was see you "lay ah" as per East enders. Where I live in the East Midlands we call people " me duck" like others say pet, luv, mate etc. Apparently it means something totally opposite in Exeter and Devon and can get you in real trouble. If you say it to a man he may think you are doubting his masculinity. My eldest had a boyfriend from there and made the mistake of using the phrase on a visit once.

Mmmm I should think he was surprised

Like bonny in the Midlands means pretty but up North means fat! That will get you into no end of bother my duck

 

[barmpot]

.... Where I live in the East Midlands we call people " me duck" like others say pet, luv, mate etc. .....

I recall on first moving to Leeds in the 1970s being addressed as "love" (more properly "luv") - this was by a large rotund gentleman who had a sandwich shop round the corner from Jimmies (St James's University Hospital where I worked), he had a cigarette out of one corner, there was a large Alsatian making sure the customers kept to their side of the counter but the queue included several of the spotted bow tie brigade (the invariable uniform of some senior consultant medical staff) and the fare on offer was extremely tasty. However to myself the use of the word "love" by another male sent out a mixed message at odds with his demeanour, reinforced a few days later by a bus conductor, also male, calling me love. I soon realised that I was dealing with dialect.

I have never managed to speak the dialect although I usually understand it - it would sound stupid in my RP voice. So that is why I have never called anyone "love" ...

 

[Pearl]

Cigarettes and alsatians behind the counter? ......................... Arr those were the days Weren't as many infections and diseases going round in those days.